Hi everyone,
How do you like the reading of The Chrysanthemums?
Ok, so reading is done and now it's time to look at the narrative analitically. We are going to do a feminist reading of The Chrysanthemums. So, people, put on your thinking cap and start sharing your views on what your feminist reading is all about.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHai Mdm Juridah and my friends,
ReplyDeleteI dislike “The Chrysanthemum”. The chrysanthemums have been interpreted as symbols of Elisa’s sexuality, or childlessness, or artistic sensibility, and all of these connections make sense when looking at Elisa’s connections to her husband.
John Steinbeck depicts the trials of a woman, Elisa Allen, attempting to gain power in a man's world. She tries to define the boundaries of her role as a woman in such a closed society. While her environment is portrayed as a tool for social repression, it is through nature in her garden where Elisa gains and shows off her power. Elisa Allen is trying her ‘fenced freedom’ momentarily. She constantly fights for an equal right with men, hence trying at best to imitate men’s mannerism in her gardening activity and personal contacts with the masculine world.
Regards,
Yew Wenting
GS 25354
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi Pn Juridah,
ReplyDeleteThe chrysanthemums is a story about a woman whose niche is in the garden. I think Elisa's actions and feelings reflect her struggle as a woman trying and failing to emasculate herself in a male dominated society. Elisa is at her strongest in the garden , this is something she does best that is planting the flowers but becomes weak when placed in feminine positions such as going out to dinner with her husband.When she tuck her tummy and reddened her lips to please her husband,her feminine side is strongest.
While her environment is potrayed as a tool for social repress, it is through nature in her garden where she gains and shows off her power.
Elisa has tried but does not really accept that she posesses a feminine power not the masculine that she so hard tries to achieve through its imitation like hiding her beautiful body in male clothing.
The peddlar sold her goods and live a gypsy kind of life a free life which she so much envies and wished she could be free and do her own things and not bother on wheter she has to please anyone or her husband.But she trusted him but he threw her flowers away.Maybe she felt that finally there is someone that treat her as equal as man but he only wanted to sell his service. That is why she was so sad and dissapointed when he threw the flowers. This to her makes her feel unimportant and I think she felt she was not appreciated by anyone or her husband.
Yap Hwei Ping
GS25575
Hello Mdm Juridah and my dear coursemates
ReplyDeleteI am not sure we should be talking about feminism in the story or in general. Either one, I will talk about both.
Feminism in general is a thought which pushes for women to have equal rights in this male dominating society; be it politically, lawfully, economically, culturally, sexually or religiously. This thought mainly came about because of the mistreatment received by women generally all over the world for the past centuries, especially during the industrial revolution. These mistreatments include all forms of abuse, lower pay, lack of freedom especially when it comes to household matters and financial independence. Such unjustified treatments are caused by a simple and general idea shared by many cultures which is; anatomically and emotionally, women will not be able to perform various acts that men can do. In fact, History has clearly recorded that women are not even allowed to receive education because education leads a woman to be smart and opens up her point of view on certain issues which is depicted to be bad. In other words, a dense woman is more welcoming than a smarter and higher educated one. Sadly, this notion still holds true to its reasoning until today in certain subsocieties, ironically among the uneducated and lower income group if I can daresay based on my true experience. But anyway, back to the topic, feminism movement should always be a prominent tool for women to hold their head high as they move towards contributing to the modernising world and development of the country. At the very least, this movement is able to bring out the confidence and natural talent of the women which in the first place, should not have been judged by gender as they make their mark in the world.
The idea of a need for feminism movement is delivered through the story 'The Crysanthemums'. In this story, Elisa is being suppressed emotionally and mentally only because she is a woman. As John Steinbeck satirely depicted, women too can wear the men's clothes and work on things that are sometimes out of the flair of men's ability such as planting flowers. Because of that, Elisa feels confident and holds her self value based on the success of the crysanthemums blooming away even during winter. Yet, she is unable to express her joy and achievement to her husband who clearly shows he is the boss of the house as he plans and make money for the house. Elisa's reactions of single sentence answers to the husband implicitly shows the air of dominance by the husband who is able to rattle away while she is being the quiet and tame partner, always at his beck and call whenever he needs here somewhere. Again, it shows that women is suppose to just listen and accept whatever their men say which brings back to the idea of being more dense compared to men in the supposed culture. Thus, when the stranger discussed about the chrysanthemums, Elisa was able to share more since it is after all her forte and she feels good about it. Yet, again her hopes were washed away when she saw the flowers were thrown away right in the middle of the road towards Salinas, a town which the stranger knew Elisa will frequent to. His chauvinistic point of view to not even at least hide away the flowers shows that he could not care less of Elisa; not because she is a stranger and possibly not meet again but because she is a woman. Like the flowers, her dignity, hardwork and a mere recognition of self worth are thrown away, unwanted no matter how pretty and promising they are.
Nonetheless, it is peculiar that when the husband did ask her out for dinner, his mannerism was sort of seeking permission and asking for opinion. I would like to take that as a symbol from John Steinbeck to say that some group of men too support the movement of feminism for the benefit of equality in life. But then again, these are after all my humble opinion which I would like to share before reading through comments from others.
Have a goodnight sleep and see you all tomorrow.
Suet Yet
GS26565
p/s: I like the idea by Yap stating that the peddler lives a life of a gypsy - free, no strings attached and safe. After all, he is a man. There won't be anything bad which can happen to him. And it is not wrong for a man to live a life like that. But if it was a woman, no matter how decent her 'gypsy-like' job is and can be, she will definitely have to face a harsh law and criticism by the society. That is the difference between men and women.
ReplyDeleteHi Mdm Juridah and my friends,
ReplyDeleteI Really enjoyed reading the story. For me it is about Elisa's pride,isolation,lonliness, struglling with her marriage and her sexual life.
Elisa is so frustrated with her rlation with her husband and she ha s a passion to experience the role of the man in life.Although she is dressing and acting like a man and hidding her sexuality and her real emotion but she is like any other women like to hear a sweet words and like to be noticeable and that is clear in her reaction after talking to the tinker sha went to take a bath and scrubed her body as if she wants to scrub her life and chang it then she dressed a beatiful dress as if she is experiencing a new life.
Elisa Allen is an eager person who hungers for excitement and passion in her life.
Hi, everyone....
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure of the definition of feminist, but I'll try. To me, feminist means when a woman is being treated unequally, by others, men and women. In this story, i think it is unfair when Elisa's husband criticize her interest in planting and taking care of her chrysanthemum. As a husband, he should appreciate what are her likes and dislikes. further, her husband made remarks about Elisa's ability in planting things to planting apples. As a woman, I'm sure she doesn't have to work that hard as to raise apples. Next, the husband make a decision on selling the steers without consulting Elisa. Her reply "Good," she said. "Good for you", I think indicates that she felt alienated and again unappreciated by the husband. As for the man on spring-wagon, it is obvious that he is just using Elisa to get what he wanted by showing fake interest into her chrysanthemum, something that she loves the most. After getting some money, she threw the flowers away, isn't that classic? What I don't understand is how Elisa was so sad and cried when she saw the dark speck (her chrysanthemum), when the man who threw them away is just a stranger who passes by in her life.
hasnor eilina
GS25177
Hello there... The idea of a need for feminism movement is delivered through the story 'The Crysanthemums'. Elisa's reactions of single sentence answers to the husband implicitly shows the air of dominance by the husband who is able to rattle away while she is being the quiet and tame partner, always at his beck and call whenever he needs here somewhere. It also shows that women is suppose to just listen and accept whatever their men say which brings back to the idea of being more dense compared to men in the supposed culture. ‘Cry’santhemums is more to feminist.
ReplyDeleteFrom R. Shan
GS26592
Good day Mrs Juridah Rashid & my fellow educators
ReplyDeleteHmm…how shall I relate feminist with chrysanthemums…
Feminist: woman or lady who as a magic touch in their own manner on cultural, tradition, style, food, flower, sociology, products, literature…& the list goes on…
In The Chrysanthemums, woman is portrayed as strong person in empowering rights for their actions. The social environment shows all the will but it only lays between the gardens for Elisa. As time passes, Elisa’s power became weak & it gets tougher for her to measure her strength character.
I feel that ‘CHRYSANTHEMUM’ symbolizes the nature of Elisa being bright and cheerful with the society however, loneliness of life still there…
Elisa found her strength in gardening, communicating with her chrysanthemums blossom out her inner beauty.
The sentence ‘lean and strong and her eyes were as clear as water’ describes Elisa’s character as a soft and kind woman who works hard and tries to attempt her power in the male society.
Regards
Kalpana Subramaniam
GS26643
Good day
ReplyDeletehmm according to shan he describes that chrysanthemum is more to feminist...
it's not only feminist...
it describes the culture of man treating a woman...like how some man look at flowers as worthless...
someone did post saying that he or she didn't like 'The Chrysanthemum'
I think we should grasp the inner of Elisa that she had a positive attempt when tried hard for it...her will-power
As suet yet said ...he is a man...no matter how hard Elisa tried the society out there was not good enough...
However, I respect Elisa's will-power of trying & her consideration of doing it...she did gain happiness of her own with chrysanthemum
Nitezzz...GS26643
Dear Mdm Juridah and my friends,
ReplyDeleteWell, I think to approach a broad concept like feminism which is related to half of the people of the world, first it is better to have a clear definition of it. I found the following lines from http://essortment.com which gives us a general idea about the topic.
There have been three major “waves” of feminism thus far, the first rising as recently as the 19th century. Feminism is an awareness that dawned openly as a response to the Abolition Movement in the mid-nineteenth century and it has matured over the last century. Currently, there are many different expressions of feminism, but the core value of feminism remains. To be feminist is to actively recognize the need for, and work to create equality for women. By definition, there is no dependence upon female superiority, man-hating, or other negative approaches toward equality. Feminism is simply a movement intending to enlighten people with a goal of improving the quality of life for women and their society. However, many people possess images of feminism that fit into the previously mentioned destructive patterns. The confusion about feminism is a result of many factors.
Women have been oppressed for as long as history. This oppression is a very similar tragedy to the oppression that occurs daily towards all kinds of minority groups, but women are not a minority group. There are actually more women on Earth than there are men. Women are not defined by skin color, by spoken language, or by class. Since women are not a minority group, their unequal treatment has gone unnoticed by many. Once talk of feminism is uttered people easily may interpret it as just another reason to complain, due to their blindness to the inequality. It is difficult to publicize an issue and expect change when that issue does not appear to exist.
Another factor that interferes with the appropriate publicity for a controversial cause is the press. In the mid-twentieth century, when mass communication boomed with the invention of the television, the media designed the public’s image of feminism. The way that people learned about this movement was through the filter of journalism. Unfortunately the media’s motives are not solely based on clear, unbiased reports of news. The influences of ratings, public interest, and the government’s economical goals caused the portrayal of feminism on television to focus on scenes that were not the feminist norm. Images of mean, angry and violent women flashed before television viewers and they attracted attention. The general public witnessed feminism as a negative force while watching the evening news.
A concluding point, which is very powerful, is that women are not always actively oppressed, and for the most part women are part of a lot of the actual oppression. The unequal treatment of women in society originates not in men, but from underneath the obvious surface, where social structure dwells. It is difficult to determine exactly where female oppression began; so many people interpret feminism as a movement that blames men. This interpretation of feminism is incorrect, yet popular.
It is important to know that feminism is about equality, not anger. To involve oneself in the feminist movement is to search for a higher quality of life for all people. The misconceptions that commonly arise out of the lack of understanding of feminism can be and must be easily cleared away in order for the truth about feminism to surface.
to be continued...
Best regards
Mohammad Reza
(GS 25775)
Dear Mdm Juridah and my friends,
ReplyDeleteNow by having enough information about feminism we can get back to own story “The Chrysanthemums”. I think it is not quite clear that this story is in favor of feminism or against it. The story is full of symbolic concepts and situations that make judgment difficult. But what is clear here is that she is quite upset about the situation that she is in it now. I don’t think she raises flowers just to prove that she is able of doing some men’s jobs. She does it to prove that she has some rights and needs attention. Like all human being she wants to prove that she is somehow unique and capable of doing extraordinary jobs. As we see Elisa is at her strongest and most proud in the garden and becomes weak when placed in feminine positions such as going out to dinner with her husband. This kind of duality in her character bothers her so much.
Best regards
Mohammad Reza
(GS 25775)
I do agree with Suet Yet and Kalpana that this story depicts feminism. Its actually shows how unequally women are treated in the society. Although Elisa is smart, energetic , attractive and smart , all this attributes goes to waste as she is not noticed and not being appreciated by her husband and the tinker. The men portrayed in this story are not as smart and talented as Elisa but they get all the satisfaction in life, Henry Allen owns a ranch, and the tinker are able to have advanture by going around the world. In this story it could be seen how Elisa envied the tinker ' thats sounds like a nice kind of way to live.' By this conversation, I could say that Elisa eager and wanted to lead an advanterous life but she can't because the society won't let her to do so. She is confined by the society that she could not potray her true self.
ReplyDeleteThus her life lingers around the garden where she feels her strenght builds there. She also feels that she is noticed by being in the garden as she associate herself to the flower. When the tinker noticed the flower she feels that the tinker also noticed her. She feels brighten. Thus when the tinker toss aside the flower it potrays how the society rejects her. As the society always portray women merely just a women and not more than a house keeper who are confined to housewhole chores. As the tinker never learn to aprreciate the flower, I feel it really shows how the society never really appreciate women for what they have done.
Her husband too feels that she is unfit for the world as he feels that women only like movie and dinner. Which I feel untrue. Like Elisa, there are women who also likes fights. This could be seen when Henry told to Elisa, 'I don't think you'll like it' when Elisa asked about the fights.
I feel it is not wrong for women to like what men like. Although this story was writen long time ago, I'm sad to say that this still happens in the present society. Society still do streotype women as weak and unable to do things that men do. Hence, I feel that in this story, John Steinbeck manage to point a critique of how women are potrayed in a society thus bringing out the issue of feminism.
Alicia Philip
GS 26579
Good day everyone,
ReplyDelete“The Chrysanthemums” by John Steinbeck, an interesting story which symbolises Elisa Allen (the hero), who attempts to run off her mechanical and domestic life that traps her femininity and her true self. She is portrayed as lean, strong, dresses well for functions but feeling empty as she has no children nor neighbours nearby to talk to as their house is on the range. Elisa is always busy with her flowers and cleaning the house and her husband is busy at the ranch.
“The Chrysanthemums’’ focuses on ideas, that Elisa is oppressed firstly by a male dominated society and then by a practical thinking mind, as we can see that she is so attached to her flowers and those flowers are some sort of compensation for what is missing in her life. It can be interpreted that chrysanthemums as symbols of Elisa's sexuality, or childlessness, or creative. All these connections make sense when looking at Elisa’s husband and the society around her.
“The Chrysanthemums,” also figures Elisa's frustration of not being with her husband as he is also busy at his ranch. He has no time to fulfil her sexual burning desires. Her husband too did not appreciate her flowers and the natural “gift” “planters’ hands”, which inherited from her mother. She feels she is worthless and not being treated fairly.
However, the tinker’s ‘sweet talk’ has changed her for a moment, as she felt appreciated and worthwhile As such, she probably found that there is someone who values her and a sudden feeling for the tinker. Although it is not explicitly said, but, maybe she would have engages in an infidelity with the tinker as the tinker has used her to fulfil his lust and then throws her as it is explained in the story that, she found the chrysanthemum sprouts that she the tinker is lying on the road. This can be considered or argued that the story is an attack against feminism.
SHAMMINE DHARMALINGAM
GS24348
For the fact that it really shows and portrays the issues of feminism in this story... I like it very much as I could see how Elisa is clearly being treated in the society. I also could see the changes that takes place in Elisa's life in the sense of her clothing where at the begining of the story she wore a man clothing while gardening which portrays the phalic implements. It also describe her body blocked and heavy which describe her asexual existence. This clothing changes right after the visit of the tinker where she changes to a more feminine clothing. This shows that she comes to accept to the very fact that she could not change the fact that she is still a woman. Besides that the story flows smoothly and I like the way the author depicts his character and still bringing out the issue of feminism.
ReplyDeleteAlicia Philip
Gs26579
Wahhh, really glad to look at everyone's thoughts! As expected from feminists, you guys are really good =) Well, as a pure MASCULINE, I tried to read it again in a feminist point of view =p
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read it, I understood that it was their culture at that time. Therefore, in my opinion, we can never make any absolute remarks like "Oh, that's totally wrong!" or "Hey, women has rights too!" because it was their culture at that time (around 1938). Some have said that this story was made because John was upset about this condition (feminism thingy) but he could not do anything, because it was their culture at that time. To me, it’s like saying “Oh, that’s totally wrong” to specific people who fart in public because in their countries, it’s considered as a compliment. So please don’t deny that there are some places during certain times where men are fully dominated by women.
My next opinion (after I read it in a feminist view) would be, in the story, Elisa did do right thing. I know for a fact that humans have hormones (again with hormones, yeah I know. Sorry…) Somehow, it was indeed uncontrollable. It’s perfectly normal for human beings to act according to their feelings and emotions sometimes. And yes, if I were to be Elisa, (even if I’m a man and the tinker is a woman - during a time where women dominate men), I think I‘d do the same thing too.
As a conclusion, John Steinbeck did an excellent job expressing the feminism issue when he wrote this story. Some also said that Elisa was inspired by Steinbeck's first wife, Carol Henning .And yes; I want to stress that feminine totally rock!! WE CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT YOU!!! =D
MUHD KHUDRI
GS27186
Hi Puan Ju and friends,
ReplyDeleteThe chrysanthemums depicts the trial of a woman trying to gain power in a man's world. Although Elisa is a smart and energetic person, she is not given any oppurtunity to develop her capabilities. Henry is less interesting and talented than Elisa but his life is far more fullfilling and busy. This shows the inequality of gender which Elisa struggle to cope with throughout the story.
The more Elisa is not treated equally, the more she does to be someone masculine. We can see this when she attempts to cover up her feminine qualities.Although she is doing the "feminine" work of gardening, she is dressed like a man. She wore a black hat low on her forehead to cover her hair, thick leather gloves covered her hands, and clodhopper shoes covering her small woman's feet. This clearly indicates the struggle of Elisa of the inequal treatment of the world towards women.
As she does her gardening, something she enjoys , "Her face was lean and strong… eager and mature and handsome". Her use of the scissors is described as "over-eager" and "over-powerful". All of these characteristics are usually masculine adjectives. This shows how much Elisa wants to be treated equally as the men.While she wants to seem strong, it seems to violate her role of being the pretty wife.
Elisa gets excited when the man who fixes households asked her about her plants. She is able to talk to a man about something, inform him of something she knows more about than he does. She feel proud knowing more than the man.She tells the man about the way that she becomes alive when working with her chrysanthemums, the way her hands become "planting hands". It is this term which best describes the feminine power Elisa receives from nature and feels as she works in her garden.
hye mdm ju and all frens..
ReplyDeleteIn this short story of Chrysanthemums, i agree with the mainstream that have been said by suet yet.Feminisme is an equal rights for women to have in male dominating society and women also got lower pay, lack of freedom, financial independence, and education also.This is why feminism movement nowadays become well known and this is because all women had realized that they have to wake up and strive for their rights and to bring out confidence and natural talent of the women
This short story of Chrysanthemums is generally talk about feminism which Elisa felt that in her everyday life planting and taking care of Chrysanthemums, she was not appreciated by her husband and she felt very sad. For her, she have tried to do all kind og man work and she had proved that women can also do hard work like man did. She has a large Chrysanthemums garden and produced big size of Chrysanthemums flower that showed she is a successful gardener but not appreciated by her husband and he said that rather than planting Chrysanthemums, she would better planting an epal tree and it will make more money instead.
The other stranger that passed by also try to get Elisa's attention and showed some interest into her Chrysanthemums but he only just used Elisa t get what he want and when he passed by, Elisa can see this Spring-Wagon man threw the flowers away and she cried because for her, they don't really appreciate what she have done
For me, this is because of the culture itself that makes man felt that they suppose to be the leader and they can do everything but in Elisa case, her husband had tried to appreciate her by complimenting she looked gorgeous when wearing a gown. Chrysanthemums for me shows feminism because this story tell us hows women heart which is so fragile even when she wears man attire.
norashikin mokhtar
gs25973
Yes, I agree with the attire part. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Steinbeck describes her to be more on the masculine side before she met that "gypsy man". After she met him, the descriptions about Elisa turn out to be more feminine like, for example in the 'She held the flower pot out to him and placed it gently in his arms'. Well, Henry was surprised to see how 'nice', and 'happy' she looks.
ReplyDeleteI don't like the last part where she was described as 'crying weakly--like an old woman'.
i think it is normal for any human being to cry; old, young, man, woman. Everybody cries.
:D
eilina GS25177
Hello Dr. Juridah and the best classmate:
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry for late comment;but just now I saw the question.
My friend yew, how did you reach to the opinion stated that the story represent Elsa’s childlessness or sexuality….,when I read the story it seemed to me that Elisa doesn’t heartedly love her husband, because there is no enough speech between both of them and all the dialogs were in formal, dry voice there is no any romantic words or soft body language(because in Arabic short stories the narrators love to describe the body language of the characters). And also I felt that she preferred to have a long conversation with the wagon’s man more than with her husband .generally I felt that she is trying to cover another part of personality, and she wanted to live in an imaginary world with a person who can understand what she is doing because her husband is addictive by his business and get her exactly as when he said do you want to fight, I don’t think you want, I am sure that she meant more than real fighting. .Sorry yew but your comment attract my attention.
In terms of feminism, "The Chrysanthemums" seems to be a story about a woman whose niche is in the garden. Upon deeper inspection the story has strong notes of feminism in the central character Elisa Allen. Elisa’s actions and feelings reflect her struggle as a woman trying and failing to emasculate herself in a male dominated society. Elisa is at her strongest and most proud in the garden and becomes weak when placed in feminine positions such as going out to dinner with her husband. Steinbeck carefully narrates this woman’s frequent shifts between femininity and masculinity over a short period of time.
In the opening of the story Elisa is emasculated by the description of her clothing. She wears "a man’s black hat pulled low down over her eyes, clodhopper shoes, a figured print dress almost completely covered by a big corduroy apron…" (paragraph 5). When Elisa’s husband Henry comes over and compliments her garden and ability to grow things Elisa is smug with him and very proud of her skill with the flowers.
Hi every body,
ReplyDeleteAs we know, feminism is a political movement which search for justice for women and the end of sexism in all forms. Feminists disagree about what sexism consists in and also dissent about what it means to be a woman or a man and what social and political implications gender has or should have. Therefore, motivated for acquiring social justice, feminist investigation provides a wide range of perspectives on social, cultural, and political phenomena. The crucial topics for feminist theory and politics are as follow: the body, class and work, disability, the family, globalization, human rights, popular culture, race and racism, the self, sex work, and sexuality.
I my opinion, “The Chrysanthemums” is a nice short story that refers to the inequality which exist between men and women. So, it should be related to feminism which states men and women are entitled to equal rights and respect. In this story, the main character is a woman whose name is Elisa Allen. She is a strong, intelligent, and passionate woman who is not satisfy with her life. She allocates all of her energy to growing flowers in her garden and working at home. Therefore, she feels frustration and loneliness in her life. The Chrysanthemums represents Elisa’s feelings of sexuality, passion, and her feminity. They are unchangeable all the year, so they are not enough for Elisa anymore.
Her husband Henry is a good man, but he is not able to satisfy his wife. He is a traditional man who does not understand the intense interest which his wife has in business. She takes immense enthusiasm at the chance of helping in the orchard, but her husband undervalues her. Although he is weaker and less intelligent than Elisa, but he is the one who is busy with lots of work. Moreover, the tinker who attracts Elisa’s attention ignores her because he supposes that she is unable to fix the pots or sharpen the scissors. These kinds of behavior toward Elisa show the difference that exists between men and women in the society which lead Elisa to feel separated from men’s world.
Regards,
Saeideh.
GS25784
Vahideh
ReplyDeleteHi Mdm Juridah and my coursemates,
Feminism refers to the political, cultural, and economic movements in establishing greater rights, legal protection for women, and women's liberation in the male dominating society. Feminism is a social movement that seeks equal rights economically, culturally, sexually or religiously for women.
I like the chrysanthemums story for its emotional theme. In this short story, John Steinbeck describes Elisa Allen a woman that wants to gain power in the men's world. She is surrounded by a wire fence, that protect her flowers from danger, but this barrier symbolizes her life. She is fenced from the real world( man’s world).
Apparently she is doing feminine work of gardening, but in fact she is dressed like a man. Elisa wore a black hat low on her forehead to cover her hair, the leather gloves to cover her hands, and clodhopper shoes to cover her small woman’s feet. indeed, she tries to cover up her feminine qualities.
Her success in growing the chrysanthemums and their blooming even in the winter, Elisa prides herself. She as a woman wish to hear some sweet words, want to be noticed and has some rights, which wants gain them.
Her innocence in business world doesn’t allow her to understand the tricks men that play to get what they want. Thus, when she saw the flowers were thrown away on the road, all her hopes were vanished. At the end in the answer to this question “do women ever go to the fights?” Elisa responds no I don’t want to go. She does not want to gain power from a man’s sphere in the world.
Best regards,
Vahideh
GS26717
Good day guyz....
ReplyDeleteThe Chrysanthemums depicts Feminism. The story revolves around the loneliness, boredom, frustration, lack of appreciation and emptiness in the life of Elisa. Somehow, I do like the story as through the eyes of the writer we could clearly see where the female stands in the eyes of a male do. Yet, Elisa’s character was strong enough. That was clearly picturised whereby she tried seeking the opportunity and being treated equally by transforming herself being more masculine (through her dressing) though the tasks that she was carrying out was more of the females(gardening). She felt very much alive with her Chrysanthemums around – very lady like. In my conclusion, the character potrays the struggle of getting some recognition and appreciation as a human and also a female. Though Elisa tried being a little more masculine in the beginning somehow in her deepest self she do realize that she is a female and in the story when she was complimented by her husband, it does show that females are somehow seen by the males in their deepest eyes. It is just that I think men do not have the nature of complimenting like the females do. Men nature of complimenting is same as grieving. They do grief but do not show and grief together. At times they do want to compliment and they do realize that female perform better, but it is just the matter of their thinking that men dominates everything and they should be better that leads them to treat female unequally.
Harbans Kaur Harpal Singh
GS 24356
Hi Mdm Ju and friends..
ReplyDelete"The Chrysanthemums" by John Steinbeck is an interesting story that despict feminism.Elisa, who is the main character that believe in equal power between man and woman.
She always try to emasculates herself in a man's world. She shows her power through her garden.She wants to be treated equally especially by her husband who never appreciates her.In the other hand, Elisa has trouble extending this power to the real feminine world. No matter how hard she tried to imitate to be masculine, she eventually learns but does not readily accept, that she possesses a feminine power weak.
I
Samsiah Abdullah
GS25353
Good evening Pn Ju and friends,
ReplyDeleteI do agree with some of you that Elisa is being suppressed mentally and emotionally. She is not allowed much freedom even in what she wants to read. When she tells her husband that she has read about the prize fights, he is shocked and she realises that it is not something that he wanted to hear. As a woman, she was expected not to be interested in such things, although he gives her a choice, but we know that he would prefer that she did not go for the fight, she has to give in.
She is also lonely and her solace lies in the chrysanthemums which is not appreciated by her husband as well. He feels that she would have done better to use her talents to plant apples. She is excited when she meets the stranger who seems to appreciate ands admire her ability to raise such good chrysanthemums but even that is not sustained as she finds out later when she sees the flowers strewn on the road to Salinas. In the world that she lived in females were treated a second class citizens.
Santha
GS 26611
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHello Pn Ju,
ReplyDeleteFeminism deals with the issues of inequality among women in a society. I agreed with Alicia after reading her comments saying that the men have things that they can be proud of and for Elisa, it is her chrysanthemums that made her feel proud of herself. It is also her flowers that made her feel that she is good at something. Steinbeck's way of describing Elisa is from a male's point of view and it is clear that Elisa wants to feel that she too belongs to the world outside, together with men, animals and nature. Her husband's suggestion that she could work wonders on the orchards suggests that her husband sees the flowers as something that Elisa works on to pass her time and not as her potential in gardening. Also, Elisa fencing her flower graden seem to suggest that her flowers are all that she has. She probably knows that her husband would prefer her working in the orchard, hence the fencing. She feels secured and confident in her comfort zone. The stranger's presence and interest in her flowers made her think that he has interest in her flowers and perhaps towards herself too, for even a stranger can see how beautifully grown those flowers are. Here, we can see that Elisa is being portrayed as a foolish woman being fooled by sweet talks and after a little pushing from the stranger. It shows how easily a man can manipulate a woman by simply saying the right thing at the right time with the right person! The description of Elisa at the beginning of the story where she wears men clothing at work is actually to disguise the weak little woman inside her working in the world where men dominates. Once the stranger succeeds in bringing out the interest and feminine side of her, she reveals a little bit too much and gives more than she should (the flowers and hopes).
This is an eye-opening story that all ladies should learn from. Men is like a whiplash that brings you back to reality; that everything comes with a price. If any men were to treat women the way they shouldn't have, be prepared to taste the punches and kicks for free! =)
Chai Hui Ling
GS26896
Anjali: True, guys are totally plain senseless in complimenting girls. Even when they try, they always end up saying the wrong things at the wrong time. Experienced that many times before, so yeah, we're still learning =) Don't hesitate to guide us though, by any means necessary =D
ReplyDeleteYes Hui Ling, noted that last part. I'll be extra careful from now on. Hahahaha =D
Yes Khudri =) Sometimes it's not that men say the wrong things at the wrong time. They just have no idea what to say at all. A consolation instead of words of advice is the best of all. Or simply a smile will do =)
ReplyDeleteHi Madam Juridah and my dear colleagues….
ReplyDeleteIt is an interesting story which represents ‘yellow’ as a nature and not a culture. Congrats John Steinbeck! Through my reading experiences, “yellow movie” is a pornographic nature in Chinese culture but here ‘yellow’ represent the sweet chrysanthemums which can replace a part of the nature of gender inequality which known as feminism.
I agreed some ideas of Ahlam’s here. Elisa’s grew her pride, loneliness and shows she was struggling with her marriage life and her sexual life. She wants to be treated bloomy by her husband but she couldn’t. It’s really shows her feminist. Far ahead, she tried seeking the opportunity to be treated equally by being hardworking and more masculine while she’s gardening.
Looking at sexuality from a feminist point of view creates connections between the different aspects of a person's sexual life.
To be added here, THANKS Kudri…You can’t live without us but how about some of us? We CAN live without you guys! Is it any ‘malelism’ issue to be raised here? Hahaha
Thank you.
Hazreen Binti Haji Abdul Hamid
GS24475
Dear Pn.Ju & friends,
ReplyDeleteJohn Steinbeck's most accomplished short story, “The Chrysanthemums” is about Elisa Allen - an intelligent, creative woman, who was compelled into an oppressive existence on her husband's ranch. The story was believed to be the reflection of the writer’s own sense of frustration, rejection, and loneliness at the time the story was written. In my opinion, there are many stories which are written with writers’ emotion entangled – intentionally or unintentionally and this must be one of it..
In terms of feminism, I feel that the writer tried to show to the readers about ‘manly’ and ‘womanly’ acts. To me, the writer regards fight – boxing, I presume, as a manly act and thus the reason why Henry – Elisa’s husband was interested to watch the fight. Meanwhile, the act of gardening is portrayed as womanly act and that is why Elisa has been doing the gardening and not voce versa. Henry, on the other hand, does the manly act of business meetings, watching fights, etc. I guess Steinbeck would have had heart attack if he lives to see that in the millennium era today, many acts are neither feminine nor masculine. There are ‘feminine’ men who do gardening and ‘masculine’ women who embraced their masculinity in terms of participating in ‘fighting’ tournaments such as boxing, weightlifting, etc. The world has evolved but unfortunately, some storylines stay the same. Although feminism in this story is shown clearly throughout the plot, Steinbeck was clever enough to have written in different symbols which make it an accomplished story praised by critics worldwide. I feel that feminism is not a big issue that needs major concern as I believe as a Muslim, our religion puts women in a very special place. However, there are certain issues on gender equality that we need to condone to.
Thanks,
Cynthia Jalil
GS23632
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Samsiah. Elisa is a kind of strong woman, which make Elisa tired of her life and wants to leave her husband and the boring tedious life she leads there with him. Elisa's husband does not help her much. He does love her, but always reminding her that she is the woman in this relationship. This shows that the women always possess feminine weaknesses.
On the other hand, the words such as "handsome" and "strong" which used to describe Elisa's characters show that women sometimes can be strong as men.
Khairunnisa Mohd Daud
GS24204
Strange as it may seem, the family roles have not changed much in today's society. Throughout history, women have been portrayed as the weaker sex. As a result of these unfair social assumptions, women have been working hard and become more independent with their lives. You go girls!! Before I move on with my opinion, I would like to say sorry!! I don’t like this story.
ReplyDeleteHere is what I think throughout my reading. In John Steinbeck’s story, he describes Elisa Allen had "planter's hands," and could make anything grow in soil. From my point of view, a flower's life is relatively short and simple. Same with Elisa in this story, just as the flowers, she only blossomed in her garden. As it was the only place a woman was safe to explore (those days). The chrysanthemums flourish, but does Elisa flourish with them? The flowers grow heartily and healthily, though the one who tends them is not so satisfied with her rooting in life. John Steinbeck portrays Elisa as a stereotypical female, yearning to bloom like the flowers she harvests. Although her green thumb could tend the richest soil, she had an urge to blossom beyond her own garden. Most women have a sense of freedom and independence from their male counterparts. But they will not reach out away from their sheltered lives with a male to a new challenge or a new life. The flowers are a symbol to Elisa for how her one talent of gardening is taken for granted and tossed aside.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"We can live without you guys?" Hmmm.... I think women today seem to be all over the place when it comes to identity. They want to be taken care of, but they want to be independent. They demand respect, but they are not respectful towards men. They want a masculine man, but they don't want to be a feminine woman.
ReplyDeleteOh, and by the way, I do not believe in gender stereotypes. Men and women are equally capable of doing whatever they feel inspired to do. Perhaps the answer lies in Equalism.
hi n assalamualaikum everyone...
ReplyDeletei really like this short story The Chrysanthemum which was written by John Steinback because it touches the famous lifelong issue which is feminism. I think the main problem faced by Elisa Allen here is the same like another other woman who is married.
i believe in some point of a marriage life, a housewife will get bored because of their daily routines which are doing the house chores and serve their whole life for the husband. This routine will not be a problem if the husband know how to appreciate his wife and the husband should give special attention to his wife. However, some men just got married for completing their necessity and needs for having a woman in their life.
What happened in this short story is, Elisa feels that her husband did not care about her feelings and he did not like Elisa focus her attention on her chrysanthemum.(I wish you'd work out in the orchard and raise some apples that big.") This shows how ELisa's husband is very insensitive about her interest and what she likes to do. Here, the man is potrayed as someone that will only manipulate the wife for their own profits.
As a woman who is at the age of 35, Elisa did not seem attractive anymore because of the hard work that she need to do. That is why the author decribed her figure as looking blocked and heavy in her gardening costume. A woman suppose to wear a dress and covered with accessories but here Elisa is a woman who wears a man's black hat, clod hopper shoes with a smudge of earth on her cheek. Because of this hard work, Elisa looks older than she suppose to be as described by her looks (mature and handsome). Elisa is not sexually attractive to her husband anymore and she also has no interest to take care about her looks anymore. In another word, she might not love her husband anymore.
Issue of feminism is becoming popular now because woman nowadays are brave enough to fight for their rights and they do not one to be controlled by the men. Before I end, I would like to share another poem that share the same issue with this short story.
A HOUSEWIFE'S LAMENT
I've washed too many pairs of dirty hands.
And cleaned a zillion pots and pans.
I've removed spots from the brand new carpet,
And made endless trips to the supermarket.
I've tripped scores of times on a toy in the hall,
And scrubbed a hundred marks from the ivory wall.
Now I am ready to run or fly
To a land where pants are always dry.
Where our spouses don't come home and say,
"What, darling, did you do today?"
written by Rosalie Ferrer Kramer
SITI ALIAH BT AMIRRUDDIN
GS 24371
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletehi n assalamualaikum everyone...
ReplyDeletei really like this short story The Chrysanthemum which was written by John Steinback because it touches the famous lifelong issue which is feminism. I think the main problem faced by Elisa Allen here is the same like another other woman who is married.
i believe in some point of a marriage life, a housewife will get bored because of their daily routines which are doing the house chores and serve their whole life for the husband. This routine will not be a problem if the husband know how to appreciate his wife and the husband should give special attention to his wife. However, some men just got married for completing their necessity and needs for having a woman in their life.
What happened in this short story is, Elisa feels that her husband did not care about her feelings and he did not like Elisa focus her attention on her chrysanthemum.(I wish you'd work out in the orchard and raise some apples that big.") This shows how ELisa's husband is very insensitive about her interest and what she likes to do. Here, the man is potrayed as someone that will only manipulate the wife for their own profits.
As a woman who is at the age of 35, Elisa did not seem attractive anymore because of the hard work that she need to do. That is why the author decribed her figure as looking blocked and heavy in her gardening costume. A woman suppose to wear a dress and covered with accessories but here Elisa is a woman who wears a man's black hat, clod hopper shoes with a smudge of earth on her cheek. Because of this hard work, Elisa looks older than she suppose to be as described by her looks (mature and handsome). Elisa is not sexually attractive to her husband anymore and she also has no interest to take care about her looks anymore. In another word, she might not love her husband anymore.
Issue of feminism is becoming popular now because woman nowadays are brave enough to fight for their rights and they do not one to be controlled by the men. Before I end, I would like to share another poem that share the same issue with this short story.
A HOUSEWIFE'S LAMENT
I've washed too many pairs of dirty hands.
And cleaned a zillion pots and pans.
I've removed spots from the brand new carpet,
And made endless trips to the supermarket.
I've tripped scores of times on a toy in the hall,
And scrubbed a hundred marks from the ivory wall.
Now I am ready to run or fly
To a land where pants are always dry.
Where our spouses don't come home and say,
"What, darling, did you do today?"
written by Rosalie Ferrer Kramer
SITI ALIAH BT AMIRRUDDIN
GS 24371
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi Mdm Juridah and my respective classmates,
ReplyDeleteTo me, Chrysanthemum has its own perspectives and agenda because it describes a lonely farmer's wife, Elisa Allen.Elisa Allen's physical appearance is very 'mannish' yet still allows a hint of a feminine side.She is a complex woman, unloved, and unappreciated. She desires above all else to be wanted and loved as well as being recognized as a sexual being, instead of a workforce that her husband sees her as.Other than that, isolation is another representation through symbolism found in "The Chrysanthemums. I found that the author of this story, John Steinbeck draws pity from the reader for Elisa Allen who desperately wishes to experience the passions of a fulfilling marriage and the stimulation of a man's life. From my own point of view, Im not totally agree with the storyline because it creates a sexually repressed and discouraged Elisa Allen who is isolated from society however still retaining their values and is also trapped in a fruitless marriage.Elisa Allen and her repressed sexuality are introduced to the readers through a manly appearance with a small clue of a womanly figure making an effort to peer through.In this story as well, it show how a lonely farmer's wife with only flowers to give her love who longs for a companion who will return the affection and passion that Elisa must restrain in her marriage for fear of breaking societies norms.In a nutshell,I think the reader must forgive her for her insecurity and loneliness because she doesn't want other women feel the same like her.Thank you.
Siti Nuha Ab Aziz
GS 24085
Hai Puan Juridah and friends. I am extremely sorry for the late comment. Well here goes my comment.
ReplyDeleteThe feminist that I can see in “The Chrysanthemum” is Elisa is so frustrated with life that she readily looks to the tinker for stimulating conversation and even sex, two elements that seem to be lacking in her life. Her physical attraction to the tinker and her flirtatious, witty conversation with him bring out the best in Elisa, turning her into something of a poet. Her brief flashes of brilliance in the tinker’s presence show us how much she is always thinking and feeling and how rarely she gets to express herself. When the prospect of physical and mental fulfillment disappears with the tinker, Elisa’s devastation suggests how dissatisfied she is with her marriage. She’s so desperate to transcend the trap of being a woman that she seeks any escape, trying to banter with her husband, asking for wine with her dinner, and even expressing interest in the bloody fights that only men usually attend. None of these will truly satisfy Elisa, though, and it is doubtful that she’ll ever find fulfillment
Elisa’s clothing changes as her muted, masculine persona becomes more feminine after the visit from the tinker. When the story begins, Elisa is wearing an androgynous gardening outfit, complete with heavy shoes, thick gloves, a man’s hat, and an apron filled with sharp, phallic implements. The narrator even describes her body as “blocked and heavy.” The masculinity of Elisa’s clothing and shape reflects her sexual existence.
Hai Pn. Juridah and friends, I am extremely sorry for the late comment due to some problems.
ReplyDeleteThe feminist that I can see in “The Chrysanthemum” is Elisa is so frustrated with life that she readily looks to the tinker for stimulating conversation and even sex, two elements that seem to be lacking in her life. Her physical attraction to the tinker and her flirtatious, witty conversation with him bring out the best in Elisa, turning her into something of a poet. Her brief flashes of brilliance in the tinker’s presence show us how much she is always thinking and feeling and how rarely she gets to express herself. When the prospect of physical and mental fulfillment disappears with the tinker, Elisa’s devastation suggests how dissatisfied she is with her marriage. She’s so desperate to transcend the trap of being a woman that she seeks any escape, trying to banter with her husband, asking for wine with her dinner, and even expressing interest in the bloody fights that only men usually attend. None of these will truly satisfy Elisa, though, and it is doubtful that she’ll ever find fulfillment
Elisa’s clothing changes as her muted, masculine persona becomes more feminine after the visit from the tinker. When the story begins, Elisa is wearing an androgynous gardening outfit, complete with heavy shoes, thick gloves, a man’s hat, and an apron filled with sharp, phallic implements. The narrator even describes her body as “blocked and heavy.” The masculinity of Elisa’s clothing and shape reflects her sexual existence.
That`s all and thank you.
Margaret Anthoney
GS26688
Hello Mdm Juridah and my dear coursemates,
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry for late comment as I was quite busy with the close relatives departure from this world and here I am would like to give my own views.
In the story, “ The Chrysan themum “ we are asked to discuss about feminism in the story. Actually, what is feminism?It is a belief and aim that women should have the same rights and opportunities as men.In other words the struggle to achieve this aim.In a way it is true that world is full of male dominating activities in politics, law, economic, sex or religion. Etc.
In this story, it looks like that Elisa is being portrayed as a strong person in giving power and rights for her actions .But the men portrayed in this story are not as smart and talented as Elisa but they enjoyed their life . So, John Steinbeck is actually intend to portray the characters of men and female basing on the cultures of the masculine and feminine behavior of that age or that period of time. It was those days that women have to obedient , faithfull, trustworthy and just follow what the men says. It was not the treating of women and male dominating world. As Shan said , it was the culture. which was existing and practicing among men and women during that time.In order to maintain a long married life and make it a successful one for a longer period until death , it is common that one has to be give and take policy and just follow what the husband says.
But if the readers think that men dominates everything and they should be better that leads them to treat female unequally and this is not what the author wants to narrate.
From A.Gopalan
GS 24230
Siti, you go girl!!
ReplyDeleteIssues on feminism become an ISSUE especially in works of literature because half of the population of this universe forgot that the other half of the population has wants and needs too.
Steinbeck brings the reader into a relationship in which time becomes the greatest enemy. As time passes by we, the females and the males, got so caught up in the demands of the society(mass)we forgot about the demands of the individuals. We are racing into the east and west, north and south, we forgot to stop and breathe into each others scent. With enjoyment comes exhilaration and a natural progression towards euphoric existence. When both females and males exist in this euphoric state, do you think there will be debates on feminism?