Hello again to Mdm Juridah and my dear coursemates.
Well, here goes on what I think about the two short stories we had dicussed on Thursday.
The Clean, Well-lighted Place (hereby known as Clean) and The Tell Tale Heart (hereby known as Telltale) shares some similarities and only a few differences. Nonetheless, these similarities is obvious for both stories as the plot revolves around the main charcater of an old man. Written by men, both stories tell the story/dilemma of old men being in a state of helplessness as people around them turn their backs to them. This can be seen in Clean whereby the old man who works as a waiter has no one and nothing except his work to keep him going while in Telltale, the old man died without possibly even knowing who killed him. Both stories are set between midnight to dawn where it is said that at this time, it is the most unwelcoming time in many cultures as evil, loneliness and all negative elements rule the world, creating a rather dark and disturbing mood towards both stoies. One main significant similarity which I observed with both stories is that although the old man plays a huge part in the story, yet there was no name mentioned. I believe this shows the insignificancy of the old man as a human being 'forgotten' to be honoured at least of a name. This of course, adds to the melancholy feeling of existence for this main character since we, as audience are only able to call them 'the old man' in our assignments, critics, essays etc for literature classes and nothing more. Another similarity in both stories is the usage of another younger man to contrast with the main character of the old man. This younger man in both stories are portrayed to have a higher level of emotions towards their life with one being eager to go home and be by his wife on the bed (in Clean) and the other having gathered years of hatred towards the old man which is enough to kill him (in Telltale). Because of the portrayal of this young man, it brings out the fragility of the old man in his life when confronted by their counterparts. In Clean, the old man seem to envy the life that the younger man is going through while in Telltale, the old man is fearful of someone in his chamber so much so that he did not dare to sleep again. Moreover, both stories had portrayed the young man detesting old man as they are labeled 'nasty (in Clean) and evil (in Telltale). Therefore, both the old man in both stories are unable to fight and fend for themselves as the younger man takes charge to overrule their pleads and questions as they are stronger and commands more power physically and mentally. This portrayes the weakness of old men in general and how they could have been acting the same way if their given the chance to be in the shoes of their younger characters.One of the many things that intrigue me is the setting for both stories. The idea of house in both stories contrast the norm perception of it being a safe place where one retires to bed and be safe and comfortable in it. Yet, in both stories, the house is where both the main characters of the old man faces negativity. In Clean, the house is empty, cold and without another tenant except him while in Telltale, it is in his house he was murdered by the comfort of his bed.
In this aspect, I am curious and wonder if the old man in Clean prefers an accompanying tenant or being left alone if living with a tenant might possibly end up just like the old man in Telltale, being murdered just because of a subjective perception towards his eyes. Speaking of which, there are also other differences too in both stories. Firstly, in Clean, there was another old man being brought into the picture at the very beginning of the story. At this point of time, we did not know that there is an age difference between both the waiters as the focus was on the old drunk man. AS the story unfolds, we see how the younger waiter treated the old drunk man with little patience and couldn't care less attitude as he subtly throw him out of the cafe. Compared to his older workmate, the older waiter was a bit more understanding of the predicament faced by the old drunk man since he too is lonely and do not have anywhere to call home. Nonetheless, it is interesting to view the different thinking that both the old men in Clean has; with one giving up hope to live in the world as he spends his life being drunk while another continues to work and has a more positive outlook of life ahead though succumb to constant loneliness. Compared to Telltale, the old man do not wish to die at all. Though it is not explicitly wriiten and known, yet the fear of the old man sitting with wide eyes and did not even dare to blink in darkness showed he has no thought of dying right at that moment. Nonetheless, it is also in my opinion a bit odd as the old man did not even move to grab something or shout for help when he sensed danger. I do wonder why.
I believe the usage of old man and night depicts a shared element which common people dislike - growing old and also darkness. It is known that old people; men or women have many problems physically, emotionally and mentally which can be a burden. Older people are not able to do many things and the idea of death is closer and significant. Thus, many who has not done or seen much in their lives will not be able to accept growing old and get nervous that time has slip by and that their prime and the best of the years had just gone by. Both authors wants to share and lament possible turn of events to the audience in preparation to grow old. As for night, old and young dislike it as that is when people with evil souls proceed with their devil-like actions then. moreover, night which signifies darkness is also associated with Death, someone or if I may say 'something' that many normal people avoid. But, in my humble opnion, the usage of night in both stories brings out a deeper feeling towards the plot of the story. Imagine if the both stories are written in the time of daylight. The supposed elements of mystery, disturbing and sadness will not be that prominent. In fact, it might be even more of a satirical manner to depict the tiresome and oversensitive manner of old people if written a daylight setting.
These are all my humble opinion. I am gladly eager to read comments from other coursemates as well.
Have a great week ahead and see you guys on Thursday!
P/s: I would just like to comment on Telltale. Do you all think the murderer is a man or woman? If I am allowed to post this question for further discussion of Telltale. =)
Somehow I think it is a woman although many analyses have said 'it' is a man. Hee.. =D
PP/S: I deleted the previous comment because I have forgotten to write my matric number.. Haha! Again.. it's the new-around-doing-this and being blur syndrome. Sorry. =]
Hi Pn Ju, Good Day... There are few similirities that i found in both of the stories.The first similirities is that both of the story are written by a male author. Besides that, both of the stories deals with death, in first story, the old man tries to commit suicide while the second story the old man was killed by an eccentric man. The story revolves around the old man in both stories and in both stories the old man are seen as lonely and unwanted. In The clean well lighted place the young waiter seems to see him as a nuisance for him. This shows how unwanted the old man is to the society. Both the stories is set in night time which shows and foreshadows death. It also shows the evilness that the writer/ author is trying to show us. It also sets the mood of evilness and dark thing that might happen The diffrences that the I could find is that the clean well lighted place is written in the third person limited omniscient while The Tell Tale Heart is written in the first person point of view as the reader is able understand the narrators feelings. The other differences is that in The Clean Well Lighted place, the old man wanted to find the light and doesn't wants to sleep. He feels the well lighted cafe is a safe refuge while in the tell tale heart the old man sits in the dark room and is able to sleep despite feeling lonely. The two word the old man and night is repeatedly used . The old man is repeatedly used in both stories to show emphasize and show the treatment of the younger society towards the elderly. It could be seen clearly that they are viewed as useless and unwanted as in both stories the old man feels lonely and alone. While night is used repeatedly as the setting of the story is to set the mood for the reader and to show what is about to come. As all knows that night relates to all the darkness and evil things. Thus the author is trying to foreshadow that in both stories evilness and death is yet to expect in the stories. ALICIA PHILIP GS26579
For both short stories,it has been used night and old to highlight the life of an old man which is lonely. in both stories, there are symbols of evil and death which been referring by the words 'night' and 'old'. these two words are interrelated whereby night referring to the end of the day and old referring to end of life. for both stories, it was a story about death whereby in tell-tale heart the old man was killed and in clean well lighted place the old man commit suicide. the differences in the story is that, how the death happen.The old man in tell-tale heart died in a safe room without noticing that day will be the last day for him but for clean well lighted place, the old man know that he is going to commit suicide and was about to end his life at that time from a bored, lonely and unwanted old man. both story taken the same setting and character of the old man because this is what had happen nowadays where the old folks had been left by youngsters because they usually busy with their own life and to be the worst that can happen to killed them because of nothing.
Good day mates! Here goes my simple comment. Both the stories revolve around the character of an old man being helpless and lonely. To add the spice into the short story, the timeline of the story is around midnight to dawn, a well known time related to evil doings and happenings. Not forgetting, both stories are related to “DEATH”, whereby in Clean the old man tried commit suicide and in Tell Tale murdered. Furthermore, both stories are written by men (Men loves thrills and dramas I suppose). Talking about the differences, in Clean the old man is still able to move around on his own (as he is able to go to the bar to get drunk) and in Tell Tale is bedridden. I was just wondering, what was in the “eyes” that led the death of the old man. I have somehow come up with some dramatic ideas of my imaginary world. Among the ideas I came up with was: 1. The “eyes” could have witnessed some dramatic and tragedy scene committed by the murderer. 2. The “eyes” could have been reminding the murderer of some incidents in the past. 3. The “eyes” could have been just too sexy that the murderer could stand no more looking at it day by day (so called like “Killing me softly”).
Literature in ESL (EDU 5277) The Tell-Tale Heart, (1843) by Edgar Allan Poe and A Well-Lighted Place, (1933) by Ernest Hemingway were written by different authors in different centuries and superficially have nothing in common, but by studying them closely we will find a lot of commonalities. Both stories are full of dichotomies like life and death, day and night, young and old, etc. All these concepts are rooted in human thoughts and characteristics. All of us humans are full of opposite concepts or in other words this is life and its features which make us and our thoughts so different. In both stories despite of the fact that they have happened in different times and locations, the basic concepts like life, death, fear, loneliness, etc have been described the same way and the reader will come to more or less the same conclusion about these concepts in both stories. In both stories we find out that how complicated a human thought could be which is almost difficult to realize this complexity with considering human actions and behavior. We can also infer from stories that what we humans are is really how we think and feel which lead us through our behavior. In both stories we repeatedly see the words ‘old’ and ‘night’. I think both of them connote one concept and that is ‘the end’. Being old could be the end of life and night could be the end of day or life. There are also some differences in both stories despite all the common ideas they share. In Well-Lighted Place we see that how human can be contented and happy by just not being alone and feeling loneliness. The only thing the old man needs in some hope and friends to bring him back to life, but in the Tell-Tale Heart we see that how human can be dangerous over something worthless and do irreversible actions which will be resulted in guilty conscience. It is implied in the Tell-Tale Heart story that for the number of humans in the world we have different thoughts, beliefs and behaviors. We need to learn how to deal with each other even though we have nothing in common. The role of social skills and how to deal with different problems can be seen clearly in the Tell-Tale Heart story. Best regards Your Student Mohammad Reza (GS 25775)
Here's what I think of 'A Clean, Well-Lighted Place' and 'The Tell-Tale Heart'. The symbolism in both stories are rather obvious. In both stories, the nature of life is being presented through the usage of the words 'night' and 'old man'. In the course of life, humans are to go through the four main stages; namely birth, aging, sickness and death. No one can escape these elements. Hence, the matter of death is being discussed in these stories.
The title 'A Clean, Well-Lighted Place' itself is a symbolism. A well-lighted space suggests liveliness and cheerfulness whereas a dark space suggests something mysterious and dull. In the story, the place where the old man sits is often associated with the word shadow. This, to me suggests that his once colorful, young time is over. What's left is the unknown number of years ahead of him and memories for him to reminisce. He once had a wife and now he's left alone and old. His tragedy of committing suicide also portrays his intention of not living his life as a loner. Hence the cafe is the only place he can find solace and peace. In a way, it also suggests that the old man is denying the fact that he will someday die. By loafing at the cafe, the lights give him a sense of assurance that he's still alive. His reluctance of going home also suggests that he might have to spend the night alone. He might also think that something fearful in the night might take his life away.
The old man in 'The Tell-Tale Heart' is also viewed as an insignificant figure for he was refered to as 'the old man' from the very beginning of the story. As the story was told by the narrator, I think he sees a very close connection between the old man and his evil eye. Everyone knows that any old man would not have many years ahead of him and because death is approaching, the thought of dying someday is also a part of their mind and soul. This is portrayed through the eyes. Therefore whenever the narrator sees the eye, he feels insecure and fear.
Night is a word commonly used in both stories. It suggests something dark, mysterious and even death. In 'The Tell'Tale Heart', night time is the time when the narrator plots something evil on the old man. At one point of the story when the ray was shone on the old man's eye, it set the narrator off his walls of sanity . In the dark, both the narrator and the eye couldn't see anything and it was the perfect time to carry out the evil deeds. Perhaps, the evil eye was a proof that it was only the narrator's delusion. The description of the eye at the beginning of the story could suggest that the old man might have cataract and it doesn't prove anything sinister at all =P
Hi Puan Ju, hi all! Ok, there is nothing much I want to put up here because all have been covered by Suet Yet. I just want to add a little bit about the old man from the two books. From my point of view, the old men here are mystery and ambiguous, partly because we only see them through the narrator’s perspective. We do not know their names, their occupations, or where they live. Both old men have money, no friends, live alone, old man from “Well-Lighted” likes to spend time in a cafe, from “Tell-Tale” the man is bedridden and some hints to show it is terrible to be old. I think the old man in “Tell-Tale” is a father figure. The narrator may be the old man's son. The old man has done nothing bad to the narrator, as Poe illustrates: "I loved the old man. He never wronged me. He had never given me insult. For his gold I had no desire . . ." Love here means that the love of a son towards his father but because the "vulture" eye of the old man is symbolizing parental surveillance which is also the paternal principles of right and wrong, the narrator feels suffocated and he killed his own father. In “Well-Lighted” I think the fact that the old man is deaf symbolizes how he is cut off from the rest of the world. He is obviously lonely. He also already tried to kill himself. He gets drunk every night indicates that he has nothing better to do in the last years of his life. The old waiter defends the drinking man because he can relate and see himself in the man. He sympathizes knowing that he, too, prefers a clean well lighted place to drink and will later appreciate such a place in his old drinking age. The old man is in his final years of life and the old waiter recognizes that he soon will have the same fate as the old man. A progression of age is seen among the characters demonstrating the transition from being young and social to aging and feeling lonely. Usually in literature, darkness symbolizes evil, ignorance, danger, etc. Night is used throughout the stories to symbolize death, darkness of the soul, and loss of faith. Consider all the terrible things that happen at night: Night in “Tell-Tale” is thus a metaphor for the way the soul was submerged in suffering and hopelessness. In “Well-lighted”, the cafe is lighted is a contrast with the darkness of death and bad thoughts. The darkness must be avoided because in the darkness everything is a "nada". The lighted place is used by the old man to escape from loneliness. I believe all of us are going to have the same opinions for these two words which constantly used in both stories: right? Thank you! Affah Mohd Apandi GS26653
Hi Pn Juridah and friends, To compare and contrast what you think of the two words in the story The Tell-Tale Heart by Edgar Allan Poe and A Clean, Well-Lighted Place . The old man in the Tell-Tale Heart is described as clouded ,pale ,blue “vulture-like” eye which so distresses the narrator.The old man was old and pale where I think that the writer wanted us to picture the old man is a man without good health probably near to his death because he, the narrator has the intention to kill the old man.The vulture eye that the old man has also is a way the narrator tries to associate it to death because in certain culture, they are animals that will appear when death is near. The time the story is not indicated but since there is a need to use the lantern and the time was when the man fell asleep ,we can assume that it is very late in the night. Usually old people has difficulty sleeping. It should be very late since the time that the murder was commited, the narrator can hear the old man’s heartbeat.The narrator first admits to hearing death watches are a sign of impending death. One variety of death watch beetles raps its head against surfaces, presumably as part of mating ritual,while others emit a ticking sound. Henry David Thoreau ab suggested in 1838 that death watch beetles sound similar to a heartbeat . The old man also has difficulty sleeping because he is old and worried that when he sleeps he may not be able to wake up ie: die. In the story A Clean, Well-Lighted Place the old man was deaf and he likes to sit late because he likes the sound of people around him so that he does not feel lonely.He was rich man but very lonely.In the tell-tale heart,the old man was lonely too because there is no indication of any wife or friends or family members. In this A Clean, Well-Lighted Place , the old man is rich and lonely but he still has a niece that stopped him from committing suicide. Anyway both man are old men with nothing much to hope for and every day is just the same as if they are waiting for their death. It would seem that they the old men are old men with nothing much to do and are afraid of night where night is usually associated with darkness and death which is impending.The old waiter is also the same, he can’t sleep until morning where he perceive that in the morning that he is less likely to die but as nighttime comes he is afraid of death.The old waiter who defends the man that it is better for the man to drink in public than in his own place because he experienced it and it is very lonely in his own house but if he drinks in a public place, at least that he feels not as lonely.The old man is in his final years of life and the old waiter recognizes that he will soon have the same fate as the old man. A progression of age is seen here. Edu5277 Literature Yap Hwei Ping (GS25575)
Hellow people...Pn Ju... I'm going to be very brief. The Clean Well Lighted Place brings about the conversation between an old man and a younger man. The younger man is adamant about calling it a day, to get back home and the older man clearly has nothing to go home to. He stays out through the night and gets to bed only at the break of dawn. The 'shadow' element is constantly in the presence of the old man, indicating an end on his trail, maybe. 'Night' brings about the end...death...so the old man is pushing through the night to sleep in the safety of daylight. As for The Tell Tale Heart, I will have to agree with Tam first, concerning the issue of the murderer being a woman instead of a man. Now, about the story itself, a murder is planned and executed. All goes well till conscience kicks in, in the middle of a conversation that's going on between the murderer and the authorities. The murderer is delusional towards the end, and pretty much admits commiting the murder. Again here, 'night' carries significant value since the planning and the murder all take place at night. The murdered notes on being an entirely different person during the day, spending the nights plotting the murder. The 'old men' from both stories in my opinion, attract death. They fear it yet it is there, unmoving, just as the day give way to night, they would have to give way to death. One could die naturally or invite murder by just having the wrong pair of eyes.
The main focus of "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" by Earnest Hemingway is on the pain of old age suffered by a man that in a cafe late one night. ‘‘The Tell-Tale Heart,’’ by Edgar Allan Poe is about a man who murders his old friend. The word of `old man` and `night` are constantly used in both short stories. Hemingway contrasts light during the day time and dark at night to show the difference between this man and the young people around him, and it shows us the desperate emptiness of a life near finished without the fruit of its labour, and the aggravation of the old man's restless mind that cannot find peace. Darkness at night is a symbol of fear, loneliness and hopelessness. For example, the old man hides in the shadows of the leaves because he recognizes the shortcoming of his refuge. Perhaps he is drawn to the shadows so that the darkness of his own age will not be so visible as it would be in the full force of the electric light. His body is dark with the effects of illness. Even his ears bring him a sort of darkness as they hold out the sounds of the world. In `The Tell-Tale Heart`, we only hear about the old man's bedroom, which is a place where horror plays in the dark night while the old man sleeps, completely unaware. This story taps our fears of the dark at night and what the dark might hold. In my opinion, the old man stood for a symbol of innocence. Yet, the evil eye was not really the old man but a weakness of the old man that he could not help.
Human nature is a delicate balance of light and dark or good and evil however, when there is a shift, for whatever reason, the dark or perverse side surfaces. How and why this "dark side" emerges differs from person to person. What may push one individual "over the edge" will only cause a raised eyebrow in another. In this case, it is the "vulture eye" of the old man that makes the narrator's blood run cold. It is this irrational fear which evokes the dark side, and eventually leads to murder.
In my opinion, difference I found in both stories is the way narrator describe the character in the story. The narrator of The Tell Tale Heart allows reader to formulate their own opinion. In a way, narrator does not discriminate the murderer look like, whether is a white male or the murderer could be female or Asian. However, while he does not develop the characters he does lay out the symbolism where they can be analyzed. Symbolism is present in the story where one can find it and wrap his own ideas around it and attempt to get inside the mind of narrator. Narrator of A Clean, Well-Lighted Place described three main character in detail. Firstly, old man is the elderly in this story. He also a deaf gentleman who drinks gracefully near the back of the cafe and a man's attempted suicide the previous week. Secondly is young waiter who is impatient with the old man, hoping to return home to his wife by a decent hour. Third character is older waiter who is the veteran waiter and understands the deeper things in life.
The word of night used in both stories is symbolizes death. In The Tell Tale Heart story, narrator used ‘night’ word to represent the death of innocence for the old man. Narrator decided to take the life of an old man for no other reason except that he had a pale blue eye. ‘Night’ also means terrible things that will happen. The terrible thing happen is narrator killed the old man.
In A Clean, Well-Lighted Place story, night stand for tremendously saddening and it influence the old man who tried to kill himself the week. Besides that, ‘night’ also stands for darkness of the soul. The old man not sad solely because of the predicament he's in, it's sad because of his outlook on life. He believes that life is not worth living.
In A Clean, Well-Lighted Place, the old man's presence will express bemoan. The young waiter generally expresses a wish to go home but he cannot do it as well because the old man still stays in cafe. Old man usually will have negative thinking in their life. It seems through the old man is saying that there is no meaning in life. Everything is nothing. There is no good or bad; no right or wrong the only thing that matters is making life somewhat pleasant. I addition, a progression of age is seen among the characters demonstrating the transition from being young and social to aging and feeling lonely.
In The Tell Tale Heart story, old man represents a helpless victim. The narrator felt compelled to kill the old man in order to dispose of his evil eye. Finally he made up his mind to kill the old man, it took him eight days to kill him. All because he wanted to see the old man's eye open, before committing the evil deed. He even shined a ray of light directly on the old man's eye, just so he can remember its image. "Whenever it fell upon me my blood ran cold, and so by degrees, very gradually, I made up my mind to take the life of the old man, and thus rid myself of the eye forever."
Obviously, both stories reflect events that occured at "night" and include an "old man". To me, these two stories are simply telling about two different old men who have different behaviours.
The first "old man" in Tell-Tale was obviously suffering from hallucination because of his actions. It seemed like he was normal at first, but changed drastically when he killed someone. Perhaps everything happened by accident, thus triggered his delusions and psychotic breakdown. In my opinion, the "night" in this story simply means the gloomy mood and surroundings, but it was very hectic at the same time. Repeated words such as "very" (line 1), "with what" (line 13), "cautiously" (line 23) and tense vocabulary such as "Hearken", "madman", "Ha!", and "Yes" clearly prove the agitated gloom.
The next "old man" in "Well-Lighted Place" was vice-versa. He was actually coping with his despair, therefore he had the sanity, unlike in the Tell-Tale. The "old man" did not disturb other people when he was drinking, even the bartender was defending him. When the waiter refused to give him more brandy, he silently paid the bill and went out. So yeah, it was gloomy, but more calm. Supposedly when we read it, it feels like the time stopped.
One of the main similarity of these stories are the main characters who are old man. Hemingway has used the contrast, light and shadow to differentiate the old man and young characters in the story. The old man is also described as deaf in the story and this indicates his separation from the physical world.
On the other hand, Edgar Poe writes this story from the perspective of the murderer of the old man. ‘‘The Tell-Tale Heart’’ exposes the dark side of humankind. The narrator’s obsession with the old man’s one vulture-eye indicates the insanity that the narrator wants to deny.
One of the most prevalent theme of these two stories are deaths. " The Tell-Tale Heart is about an old man who was killed by an accentric man.The narrator is obsessed with the notion that the old man actually has the "evil eye". The narrator also feels that a person can inflict harm on another by simply looking at them that he carries the cold-blooded murder of the old man. The murder was planned and carried at night, shows that this is the time when negative forces takes place over positive. Although the narrator love the old men but the "vulture eye" over ride his love and make him commit those negative acts of planning and murdering him.
Good Day everyone, To begin with, these two stories were written by two different authors in two different eras. These writers too had their own ways of writing short stories according to their field of interest and genres. Clean-Well Lighted Place (CWLP) is easy to understand compared to The Tell-Tale Heart (TTTH). The most common similarities are the authors are male, and both stories talks about old man as their main character. In CWLP, describes about an old man who has a lot of money to drink (brandy) at the bar, but, he can’t use his wealth to buy happiness. He is always lonely as there is nobody to accompany him during his older days. The only companion he has is the cafe and his brandy. Ernest Hemingway has used many dichotomy in his CWLP, which shows the two extreme, dark-light, night-day, young-old, and lonely-not lonely. In this story too, dark or darkness is used, whereby basically dark means negative elements, such as, scared, evil, not pure, revengeful, and fear. The old in this story has a lot of mixed feelings like, sad, disappointed, void, lonely, and some degree of fear of darkness. However, the author has also portrayed the old man with self respect, whereby in spite of him been drunk everyday without fail, he still can keep his drinking place clean and always pays for his drinks at the cafe. In this story, old people should not be let alone, they must always have someone to accompany them as they need attention and care at that sensitive age. In TTTH, an insane person, killing an old man just because of his eyes was his biggest threat. The story has nameless and ageless killer, the narrator of this story is also unknown. The killer thinks that what he has done is right as he got rid of the ‘evil eye’ by killing the old man. The killer too very confident that he had a reason for killing, as the killer thought that one of the old man’s eye was evil. The killer also thought that the eye resembled like a vulture, which intimidating the killer. The killer was portrayed as dangerous and out of his mind person or mad. As we can see that, he said... ‘but why would you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses-not destroyed-not dulled them'. The killer is trying to convince us that the disease his suffering from is not serious. The insane person killed the old man and cut and laid him under the floorboard of the house. This killing took place at night, a very silent night, as the killer could hear the clock’s minutes hand moving. The killer feels that what he did was very satisfying and will not be caught by the policemen but finally he develops a strong headache and becomes restless as he could imagine and hear the sound of the old man’s heart beat. Ultimately, he has no choice but to confess his offence and get the body out of the hideout. This story is thrilling and at the same time, it gives a clear picture that, insane person can do extremes in order to achieve their desire and killing is definitely in their list.
To me, both stories represented similar themes -old age, darkness & loneliness. Although both has differences but there were many obvious similarities in terms of characters and settings. In addition, both stories had many dichotomies such as young and old, day and night, life and death, etc. These concepts are the basis of human ideas and uniqueness and such features made us sometimes have different ideas and personalities. Thus, we can infer from the stories that human’s behavior is somewhat influenced by his/her thoughts or ideas about certain issue.
Another similarity in the stories is the usage of repeated words such as ‘old’ and ‘night’. In my opinion, both words connote ‘an end’ as old means an end to one’s life while night means an end of a day. As such, these two words that represented both stories showed the end of something. The similar representation in both stories was shown in the characters as well. In Well-Lighted Place (WLP) by Ernest Hemingway, the main character was an old, deaf man and this has represented another issue in both stories; loneliness. The man would stay for his drinks till the wee hours and his stay showed that he was a lonely man with no one to return home to. In addition, his deafness supported his lonesome where it portrayed that he was lonely in both the outside and inside world. Meanwhile, the gloomy setting of the story (night time) also supported loneliness, darkness and an end to daytime.
In The Tell-Tale Heart (TTH) by Edgar Allan Poe, the narrator’s age was not revealed but the main character that played an important part in visualizing the concept of darkness, loneliness and an end was an old man. This time around, the innocent old man was portrayed as being lonely and had to opt to ‘hire’ an assistant to help him. However, his kindness of giving the assistant a job was repaid in a horrid manner by the man – his murder. The man was driven by the old man’s evil eyes which persuaded him to commit the insane deed. The old man’s end came soon after he was murdered by the assistant whose seemingly dark side (another representation of darkness) could not be hid anymore.
Finally, I feel that both characters in WLP and TTH needed to cast away their loneliness and darkness. The old man in WLP needed to have company to share his life with while the assistant needed a company to share his anxiety and fear. By talking to people they were comfortable with, both would not feel out casted and did unnecessary actions. We can also learn from both stories that everybody need attention and love hence, old people should not be ignored their rights to love and care.
In my opinion, there are a few similiarities in the story A clean, Well Lighted Place and A Tell Tale heart in terms of their main characters. An old man in a story of A clean, Well Lighted place is someone who is lonely and he has a good character inside. That is why he likes to come to a clean bar every night just to spend his time there by drinking. Meanwhile, the the old is portrayed by the narrator as someone who is very lonely and the narrator believes that he can do a big favour to the old men if he kills the old man.
Boths stories shares the same theme which are loneliness and meaningless life. That is why the night and old man are constantly being used in both stories. I believe that, the night symbolizes an old man which can be related with darkness, lonely, dull and empty. Nothing in life is interesting anymore in old man's life. Normally at night, people just stay at home sleep. They did not work and they have nothing to do except sleeping. That is why night symbolizes an old man because they have no job and they do not know what to do.
Growing old is also one of the issue in both stories. As a human being, the phase of growing old is hardly being accepted by us. It is because, our lives is going to end soon and it definitely will affect our emotions. Old people become more sensitive and plus when their physical body becoming weaker day by day. That is why, these issues have been highlighted in both stories as potrayed by these two old men.
In both stories, Poe and Hemingway highlighted the stigma that most people have about being and growing old. Some people try very hard not to look old as being old reminds them of death and the feeling of hopeless to people around especially, family members. We can see the contrast of these stories, where one old man wanted to commit suicide, but stopped by the niece and the other one being murdered by a schizophrenic who lives with him. In A Clean, Well-Lighted Place, Hemingway described being old as nasty. The clean, and well-lighted place, the setting of the story symbolises the old man. Clean, being the way how the waiter perceived him to be with the way he drinks without spilling the brandy although he is already drunk. Being lonely is also another adjective and characteristic used to describe the old man. Having no wife and only a niece to take care of him tells us how bad his life is. Ironically, since being old can only be understood by the older waiter, he pitied the old man. He understood what it feels like to be lonely because he himself is lonely. The other issue that can be highlighted is the generation gap that exists between the young waiter and the lonely old man. The old man said thank you when he pour the drink, but there was no reply from the young waiter. Isn’t that familiar with the young generation that exist in our society today, where students do not think highly and respect teachers anymore? In The Tell-Tale Heart the old man is described as having an Evil Eye. The pale blue eye, with a film over it describe how old he is with the film describing he has a cataract. In this short story, death is not a decision that the old man made, it was the persona in this story who decided to end the life of the poor, harmless old man. In both stories, we can see that these two old men are harmless. The old man in The Tell-Tale Heart is loved by the schizophrenic who killed him. The persona said I loved the old man, the ironic is that he hated the old man Evil Eye (not eyes). It was not his choice to kill the old man; it was his unstable mind that decided to put an end to the old man’s lives. Since Poe also had a drinking problem, we can relate the unstable mind to the effects of drinking problem that he had. It also portrays the scientific effects of drinking where most people tend to be abusive because of alcohol. The two words night and old used in these two stories are used to stress on how generally people think of both. It is human’s nature to grow from young to old and it is the law of nature for day to turn to night. The only difference is that you will face another day, but you will never turn young again. The funny thing is that how young a night can be with all the nightlife that we sometimes go through in life. So, both words, night and old is just used to describe the way most people live their life when they are old, but night not necessarily means death or old it means that at one point of life you will stop your hectic and active lifestyle because everybody needs a rest or pause for a while.
There are some similarities between both of the short stories. In A clean, well-lighted place, the author presents symbols of night and darkness. Both of these symbols mean loneliness. When, someone feels lonely, there's nothing much that can be done. Thus, this will brings towards the feeling of hopelessness. That's why the old man tried to kill himself. He felt hopeless and tried to end the feeling by commit suicide. He thought that it is meaningless to continue his life. The older waiter and the old man both have a fear of loneliness, going home to nothing. The loneliness that the dark night brings. It was a fear of being lonely, it was something that went away when it could be seen in a clean and well lighted place or in the light of day.The night also symbolizes the old man. Night refers to the end of the day. The old man is now old and he was towards the end of his life.
These symbols also are clearly shown in The Tell-tell Heart. The dark symbolized by the drapes or shutter in the old man's bedroom. The shutters represent privacy and secrecy because they stay closed and keep the room dark. The old man believed that when the shutters closed, no one will harm him and he felt protected. In this short story, there is a symbol of midnight. However, the midnight is contrast with the night from A Clean, well-lighted place. Midnight here represents rebirth. A person can decide the path either they want to continue to which they have been follow or change a new one. This is because the author tells that the character stood there for one hour at midnight.
In my opinion, A clean well,lighted place is more easy to understand compared to the tell-tale heart. As it is shorter in terms of length, the language that has been used by the author also is simple.
The concept of loneliness is redeemed in “A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” and the situation of high imagination or think overtly was redeemed in “The Tell-Tale Heart”. Comparisons might be brought out. For a symbiotic relationship to exist between these two stories, it became imperative that both of the stories patched their differences by communicating in the language of dichotomy.
But there are still some similarities where it talks about the character of an old man in both stories. For example, the first paragraph in “A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” it shows clearly the main character of the story is an old man where “It was very late and everyone had left the cafe except an old man who sat in the shadow the leaves of the tree made against the electric light” whereas in “The Tell-Tale Heart” the third paragraph in last line shows clearly that an old man takes place again here where “So you see he would have been a very profound old man, indeed, to suspect that every night, just at twelve, I looked in upon him while he slept”.
The issues of night and old man were appeared in both stories, shows that the author is more precisely tells about her feelings of love and care at the same time. The elderly people always need extra eye on them where time changes them to be babyish again.
In different perspective of that, learning any language comes wholeheartedly from interest and love for the language. I don’t think anyone can be forced to study a language. If forced into such a situation, the person will only end up memorizing passage and paragraphs and parroting them with no notion about the text. Instead of pressing the panic button and raising the adrenalin level unnecessarily, my suggestion is to take it easy, relax and pick up your favorite book or story and read through. Enjoy what is written. Best seller novels should put you in the right road. Set aside time everyday to read a section of the book. You will soon find yourself hooked on the reading more books especially in literature context. You may also be a good explorer of literature component.
Gopalan Aroo GS 24230 Hello , My honourable Lecturer, Mdm Juridah and friends , From my view, The Clean Well Lighted Place highlighted about the death of an old man who was separated from his family and public life through a conversation between an old man and a young man who is living with a family and wife. In this story Hemingway uses the waiters to judge the old man portray towards the type of drinker. In the Tell Tale Heart , where the narrator insisting that he is not mad and throughout the story he is obsessed with time who kills his victim and it can be said that the story is of thrilling interest and wild and readable.
Hi every body, There are some similarities and also some differences in these two stories- “A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” and “The Tell-Tale Heart”. Both of these stories happen in the same setting which is night and darkness. As we know, night and darkness show the evilness of this time of day, because they are symbols of loneliness, isolation, and death. In these two stories we have the same character- an old man- whose names are not mentioned. Maybe the authors of these stories want to show us the unimportance role of old peoples in our world that are ignored by young people. Moreover, in these stories we have lots of contrasts such as old and young, night and day which refer to the differences that exist in our world. Also I think that both of these stories are moral stories. They make us aware of the world of old people who needs our attention. One of the differences in these two stories is related to the way of thinking of two old men. Although both of them are alone, but the one in “A Clean, Well- Lighted Place” prefer to be awake until morning, because he hates darkness of night, but the old man in “The Tell-tale Heart” prefer to sit in his room where is dark. The other differences of these stories refer to their point of view. “A Clean Well-Lighted Place” is narrated in third person, but the second one is narrated in first person. The two words- night and old man- are repeated a lot in these two stories. In my opinion, the reason of using these two words is to show us the darkness of old people’s world. They feel loneliness and isolated in this world, because others especially young people do not pay attention to them. Saeideh, GS25784
Honestly, there are some similarities of themes inside these two short stories. Both came from the concept of darkness which symbolize bad sign and another one came from loneliness of old man. Generally, when human being feels lonely, they will think negative unlike normal person does because they have no one to talk to, no one to share their problems,only hopes for something that will dissapear in life forever.In they end, they might feel to commit suicide because cannot find any solution.
Talking about these two short stories, there are also comparison of young and old, day and night, life and death and others because in the Tell Tale Heart, the life of the old man seems to be unhappy and dull because of loneliness in his life. I am sure, in life, we may feels all this cycles, sometimes we feel alone eventhough our love ones are besides us and sometimes we feel lonely.For example, day normally symbolizes happinesss, open space,easy meanwhile night with the gloomy setting symbolizes the negative concept such death.
Therefore, between these two short stories,I could say that both represent the same concept which is darkness, loneliness, unhappiness and dull.
Hi everyone. To my mind, both the stories revolved around the character of an old man being unwanted, helpless and lonely. In both stories we repeatedly see the words ‘old’ and ‘night’. I think both of them indicate concepts of the end, end of the night, end of the life, and also indicate death, darkness and loneliness. Furthermore, night means terrible things that will happen in life. Old means loneliness, unhealthy, sadness and depressing. I think both stories are full of differences such as, life and death, young and old, day and night, etc. In the story A Clean, Well-Lighted Place the old man was deaf and likes to go late because he wants to hear the sound of people around him so that he does not give him loneliness. He was a rich man but alone. In the tell-tale heart, the old man was lonely too because there is no evidence of family or friends. In A Clean, the old man has a niece that stopped him from committing suicide. Anyway both men are old men with nothing much to hope for and every day is just the same as if they are waiting for their death. They are afraid of night where night is usually related to darkness and death. Also the old waiter is the same; he can’t sleep until morning where he perceives that in the morning that he is less likely to die. Both stories are related to death, but old man in A clean tried to kill himself and old man in tell –tale was murdered. In the both dramas, the young people hope to the life, hope being alive and live without any darkness, loneliness and danger. . vahideh gs26717
URANUS Dear all; In my opinion, both stories belong to the dark literature; although they carry a sympathetic meaning to elderly people. Poe's theme has been blended with horror and fear whereas in Hemingway's it if filled with romance and love. Both stories apply many metaphors such as darkness, night, death, loneliness, and old places to connote with old guys. It convey the message that when somebody grows older, he has to suffer from loneliness, darkness and old places and they are ignored by society. The narrator in Hemingway's is third person but in Poe's is first person.
Good evening Dr.Juridah &my classmates To begin with, as all of my friends commented before, the two stories shared the same character whom is the old man. But the different is how each author has represented the plot. For example A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" addresses this question through the character of the older waiter, a man pondering the meaning of life. The older waiter observes the old man and comes to the conclusion that without a motivation to live, one wanders in a world of nothingness. There are three main characters in "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place," and each represents a different view on the meaning of life. The young waiter naively believes that his life has purpose, in the form of his marriage and job. In contrast to the young waiter, there is the old man who has nothing left to live for. The older waiter plays the part of an unbiased observer who is able to relate to both of these two extremes. As the short story progresses, the older waiter identifies with the old man. He begins to understand the reason for this man's despair and realizes that he is not much different himself. This realization begins as the young waiter is describing the old man's attempted suicide. Whereas in Tell Tale Heart, according toEdgar Allan Poe, the old man had never done anything to warrant his murder. However, the old man’s cloudy, pale blue eye bothers the author tremendously. The author or believes that only by killing the old man can he get rid of the eye’s overpowering malignant force. The old man is apparently quite rich, for he possesses “treasures” and “gold” and he locks the window shutters in his room for fear of robbers. However, the author states that he has no desire for his gold. In fact, he claims that he loves the old man. Through the Edgar, the reader understands the horror that the old man experiences as he realizes that his companion is about to kill him. Edgar claims that he too knows this horror very well. In terms of differences, the two stories differ in their type of narrating. Typically, Hemingway uses two types of narration: the first type he uses the actual subjective 1st person narrative whereas the second type is the objective third person whereas , A notable aspect of “The Tell-Tale Heart” is that the story is told from the first-person point of view. The story is a monologue of a nervous narrator telling the reader how he murdered someone. In terms of second question, relating to night and dark, death and night are closely linked.for example Edgar explains that “the old man’s hour had come,” all the while painfully aware of the hours it takes to kill a victim and clean up the scene of the crime. also Hemingway uses as Darkness is a symbol of fear and loneliness. Kalthoum.R.M.Said GS24711
Good evening everyone! Well, I do agree that both stories have a lot of similarities in the sense that they use old men as main characters and these men are portrayed as being alone and friendless. No one seems to care about them and they live alone. They are weak almost fragile and rather helpless. Generally they are quite insignificant, yet they seem to disturb or rather irritate two young men. For example in "A clean well-lighted place" the young waited is irritated by the fact that the old man does not want to leave although it is late, so much so that he tells the old man that the drinks are finished so as to make him leave.
In "The tell-tale heart" the young man is so disturbed by the old man's eye that he murders him. In both stories, it is clear that the old men are defenceless when confronted by someone younger ; the old man in “A Clean well-lighted place” is forced to leave the cafe even though he is not ready to do so while the old man in "The tell-tale heart" is brutally murdered and his body parts dismembered. This tells us that the younger generation do not care about the aged, nor do they have any respect nor love for them.
In addition, both stories are set at night. Night is depicted as somewhat negative, dark and sombre. In "A Clean well-lighted place" the old man prefers the cafe because it is bright and well lighted, he does not want to return home to a dark house. Night signifies insomnia and is rather sinister in nature as we see in"The tell-tale heart" for instance where the old man hears sounds that he would not normally be able to hear in the daytime and he is unable to sleep as it scares him. It is also during the night that he is murdered for no clear reason at all.
Here in the two stories, night is associated with loneliness and death as even in the first story the old man attempts suicide at night. In both stories, the old men's lives are purposeless, they do not have a reason to live.
Perhaps what the authors are trying to convey is the fact that each of us will become old one day and that our lives will become as insignificant as that of these old men. However, we have to remember that there is always day after each night, in other words hope.
Hi Mdm Juridah and friends.. all my friend wrote what was in my mind and i agree about the similiraty in the 2 stories "the darkness, the lonliness and the comparission between the old and the young age. the difference between the 2 stories is in the style of narrating.the clean well lighted place is written in the third person limited omniscient while The Tell Tale Heart is written in the first person point of view. The other differences is that in The Clean Well Lighted place, the old man wanted to find the light and doesn't wants to sleep. He feels the well lighted cafe is a safe refuge while in the tell tale heart the old man sits in the dark room and is able to sleep despite feeling lonely.
Night and old man represent the death the end of the life which was a concern in the stories.
hi there... The difference I found in both stories is the way narrator describe the character in the story. The narrator of The Tell Tale Heart allows reader to formulate their own opinion. In a way, narrator does not discriminate the murderer look like, whether is a white male or the murderer could be female or Asian. However, while he does not develop the characters he does lay out the symbolism where they can be analyzed. Symbolism is present in the story where one can find it and wrap his own ideas around it and attempt to get inside the mind of narrator. Narrator of A Clean, Well-Lighted Place described three main character in detail. Firstly, old man is the elderly in this story. He also a deaf gentleman who drinks gracefully near the back of the cafe and a man's attempted suicide the previous week. Secondly is young waiter who is impatient with the old man, hoping to return home to his wife by a decent hour. Third character is older waiter who is the veteran waiter and understands the deeper things in life.
The word of night used in both stories is symbolizes death. In The Tell Tale Heart story, narrator used ‘night’ word to represent the death of innocence for the old man. Narrator decided to take the life of an old man for no other reason except that he had a pale blue eye. ‘Night’ also means terrible things that will happen. The terrible thing happen is narrator killed the old man.
Hi Mdm Ju and my friends... I've tried a few time to post a comment but i just don't know why it can get through. My comment will be very brief. I have read both of the story and yes, obviously it has some similarities. Firstly, as what some of you mentioned before, it was both written by male author.The main character in the stories is lonely old man who have to deal with a young man. Both of the stories also mentioned about "death" where in the first story (Clean-Well Lighted Place) the old man is trying to commit suicide but luckily he has been saved by his niece and in another story, Tell tale Heart, the old man has been killed by an insance young man. The stories also both shows that some of the young man has no more respect towards the old man as they think that the old man is a burden. In my opinion,the word "night" and "old man" that being used in the stories shows loneliness and darkness. I believe that many of us are scare of night as well as being an old man since we always think that nothing in life is interesting anymore in old man's life, as mentioned by Siti Aliah's before. "Night" symbolized the loneliness and emptyness of the old man heart and feeling. The old man always feel unwanted and useless.
Good day Mrs Juridah I'm facing some problems to post over the blog... Here are my view of points: (emailed 28th July 2010)
I feel that both the stories symbolize a personal level of episode which put into actions. The stories impose on gloomy and loneliness that would have confronted to lose their enthusiasm. The characters exposed heroes of themselves.
A Clean, Well-Lighted Place describe on an old gentleman who is trying to escape from the darkness. He finds himself lighted-up in the bar; while having drinks decently. He feels that he has no meaning in life; no right or wrong; any good or bad. He fears of nothingness that brings dark night to him. I believe there is philosophical idea that is being portrayed here. The old mans action has no measurement till he try to kill himself. It is sad because of his outlook upon his life. He believes that life is not worth living.
He portrays two different stages of lives; first, young waiter – energetic and followed by him and the other waiter – started to see the meaningless of life. Darkness will shine in day if one is lonely. The only thing that can have meaning is an individual staying out of fear and darkness. All we ever wanted was a clean, well-lighted place to go to…..
The Tell-Tale Heart describes on the rights to live a life between men and women which are influenced by many factors. Our believes are interrelated with ideas which being influenced by outside source. The man was not control of his actions. He gave us clues that over-shadow our daily activities with much fear in the man. The man was unconscious of their actions became nervous and anxiety. The struggle in darkness made he low-esteem and does not know what he was doing or saying. The mystery of this somehow is unsolved…
Hello again to Mdm Juridah and my dear coursemates.
ReplyDeleteWell, here goes on what I think about the two short stories we had dicussed on Thursday.
The Clean, Well-lighted Place (hereby known as Clean) and The Tell Tale Heart (hereby known as Telltale) shares some similarities and only a few differences. Nonetheless, these similarities is obvious for both stories as the plot revolves around the main charcater of an old man. Written by men, both stories tell the story/dilemma of old men being in a state of helplessness as people around them turn their backs to them. This can be seen in Clean whereby the old man who works as a waiter has no one and nothing except his work to keep him going while in Telltale, the old man died without possibly even knowing who killed him. Both stories are set between midnight to dawn where it is said that at this time, it is the most unwelcoming time in many cultures as evil, loneliness and all negative elements rule the world, creating a rather dark and disturbing mood towards both stoies. One main significant similarity which I observed with both stories is that although the old man plays a huge part in the story, yet there was no name mentioned. I believe this shows the insignificancy of the old man as a human being 'forgotten' to be honoured at least of a name. This of course, adds to the melancholy feeling of existence for this main character since we, as audience are only able to call them 'the old man' in our assignments, critics, essays etc for literature classes and nothing more. Another similarity in both stories is the usage of another younger man to contrast with the main character of the old man. This younger man in both stories are portrayed to have a higher level of emotions towards their life with one being eager to go home and be by his wife on the bed (in Clean) and the other having gathered years of hatred towards the old man which is enough to kill him (in Telltale). Because of the portrayal of this young man, it brings out the fragility of the old man in his life when confronted by their counterparts. In Clean, the old man seem to envy the life that the younger man is going through while in Telltale, the old man is fearful of someone in his chamber so much so that he did not dare to sleep again. Moreover, both stories had portrayed the young man detesting old man as they are labeled 'nasty (in Clean) and evil (in Telltale). Therefore, both the old man in both stories are unable to fight and fend for themselves as the younger man takes charge to overrule their pleads and questions as they are stronger and commands more power physically and mentally. This portrayes the weakness of old men in general and how they could have been acting the same way if their given the chance to be in the shoes of their younger characters.One of the many things that intrigue me is the setting for both stories. The idea of house in both stories contrast the norm perception of it being a safe place where one retires to bed and be safe and comfortable in it. Yet, in both stories, the house is where both the main characters of the old man faces negativity. In Clean, the house is empty, cold and without another tenant except him while in Telltale, it is in his house he was murdered by the comfort of his bed.
In this aspect, I am curious and wonder if the old man in Clean prefers an accompanying tenant or being left alone if living with a tenant might possibly end up just like the old man in Telltale, being murdered just because of a subjective perception towards his eyes. Speaking of which, there are also other differences too in both stories. Firstly, in Clean, there was another old man being brought into the picture at the very beginning of the story. At this point of time, we did not know that there is an age difference between both the waiters as the focus was on the old drunk man. AS the story unfolds, we see how the younger waiter treated the old drunk man with little patience and couldn't care less attitude as he subtly throw him out of the cafe. Compared to his older workmate, the older waiter was a bit more understanding of the predicament faced by the old drunk man since he too is lonely and do not have anywhere to call home. Nonetheless, it is interesting to view the different thinking that both the old men in Clean has; with one giving up hope to live in the world as he spends his life being drunk while another continues to work and has a more positive outlook of life ahead though succumb to constant loneliness. Compared to Telltale, the old man do not wish to die at all. Though it is not explicitly wriiten and known, yet the fear of the old man sitting with wide eyes and did not even dare to blink in darkness showed he has no thought of dying right at that moment. Nonetheless, it is also in my opinion a bit odd as the old man did not even move to grab something or shout for help when he sensed danger. I do wonder why.
ReplyDeleteI believe the usage of old man and night depicts a shared element which common people dislike - growing old and also darkness. It is known that old people; men or women have many problems physically, emotionally and mentally which can be a burden. Older people are not able to do many things and the idea of death is closer and significant. Thus, many who has not done or seen much in their lives will not be able to accept growing old and get nervous that time has slip by and that their prime and the best of the years had just gone by. Both authors wants to share and lament possible turn of events to the audience in preparation to grow old. As for night, old and young dislike it as that is when people with evil souls proceed with their devil-like actions then. moreover, night which signifies darkness is also associated with Death, someone or if I may say 'something' that many normal people avoid. But, in my humble opnion, the usage of night in both stories brings out a deeper feeling towards the plot of the story. Imagine if the both stories are written in the time of daylight. The supposed elements of mystery, disturbing and sadness will not be that prominent. In fact, it might be even more of a satirical manner to depict the tiresome and oversensitive manner of old people if written a daylight setting.
These are all my humble opinion. I am gladly eager to read comments from other coursemates as well.
Have a great week ahead and see you guys on Thursday!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteP/s: I would just like to comment on Telltale. Do you all think the murderer is a man or woman? If I am allowed to post this question for further discussion of Telltale. =)
ReplyDeleteSomehow I think it is a woman although many analyses have said 'it' is a man. Hee.. =D
PP/S: I deleted the previous comment because I have forgotten to write my matric number.. Haha! Again.. it's the new-around-doing-this and being blur syndrome. Sorry. =]
Regards, Suet Yet (GS 26565)
Hi Pn Ju, Good Day...
ReplyDeleteThere are few similirities that i found in both of the stories.The first similirities is that both of the story are written by a male author.
Besides that, both of the stories deals with death, in first story, the old man tries to commit suicide while the second story the old man was killed by an eccentric man.
The story revolves around the old man in both stories and in both stories the old man are seen as lonely and unwanted. In The clean well lighted place the young waiter seems to see him as a nuisance for him. This shows how unwanted the old man is to the society. Both the stories is set in night time which shows and foreshadows death. It also shows the evilness that the writer/ author is trying to show us. It also sets the mood of evilness and dark thing that might happen
The diffrences that the I could find is that the clean well lighted place is written in the third person limited omniscient while The Tell Tale Heart is written in the first person point of view as the reader is able understand the narrators feelings.
The other differences is that in The Clean Well Lighted place, the old man wanted to find the light and doesn't wants to sleep. He feels the well lighted cafe is a safe refuge while in the tell tale heart the old man sits in the dark room and is able to sleep despite feeling lonely.
The two word the old man and night is repeatedly used . The old man is repeatedly used in both stories to show emphasize and show the treatment of the younger society towards the elderly. It could be seen clearly that they are viewed as useless and unwanted as in both stories the old man feels lonely and alone. While night is used repeatedly as the setting of the story is to set the mood for the reader and to show what is about to come. As all knows that night relates to all the darkness and evil things. Thus the author is trying to foreshadow that in both stories evilness and death is yet to expect in the stories.
ALICIA PHILIP
GS26579
hi mdm ju..
ReplyDeleteFor both short stories,it has been used night and old to highlight the life of an old man which is lonely. in both stories, there are symbols of evil and death which been referring by the words 'night' and 'old'. these two words are interrelated whereby night referring to the end of the day and old referring to end of life.
for both stories, it was a story about death whereby in tell-tale heart the old man was killed and in clean well lighted place the old man commit suicide.
the differences in the story is that, how the death happen.The old man in tell-tale heart died in a safe room without noticing that day will be the last day for him but for clean well lighted place, the old man know that he is going to commit suicide and was about to end his life at that time from a bored, lonely and unwanted old man.
both story taken the same setting and character of the old man because this is what had happen nowadays where the old folks had been left by youngsters because they usually busy with their own life and to be the worst that can happen to killed them because of nothing.
norashikin mokhtar
gs25973
Good day mates!
ReplyDeleteHere goes my simple comment.
Both the stories revolve around the character of an old man being helpless and lonely. To add the spice into the short story, the timeline of the story is around midnight to dawn, a well known time related to evil doings and happenings. Not forgetting, both stories are related to “DEATH”, whereby in Clean the old man tried commit suicide and in Tell Tale murdered. Furthermore, both stories are written by men (Men loves thrills and dramas I suppose).
Talking about the differences, in Clean the old man is still able to move around on his own (as he is able to go to the bar to get drunk) and in Tell Tale is bedridden.
I was just wondering, what was in the “eyes” that led the death of the old man. I have somehow come up with some dramatic ideas of my imaginary world. Among the ideas I came up with was:
1. The “eyes” could have witnessed some dramatic and tragedy scene committed by the murderer.
2. The “eyes” could have been reminding the murderer of some incidents in the past.
3. The “eyes” could have been just too sexy that the murderer could stand no more looking at it day by day (so called like “Killing me softly”).
That’s all for this moment.
Adios!
Harbans Kaur Harpal Singh
GS 24356
Literature in ESL (EDU 5277)
ReplyDeleteThe Tell-Tale Heart, (1843) by Edgar Allan Poe and A Well-Lighted Place, (1933) by Ernest Hemingway were written by different authors in different centuries and superficially have nothing in common, but by studying them closely we will find a lot of commonalities. Both stories are full of dichotomies like life and death, day and night, young and old, etc. All these concepts are rooted in human thoughts and characteristics. All of us humans are full of opposite concepts or in other words this is life and its features which make us and our thoughts so different. In both stories despite of the fact that they have happened in different times and locations, the basic concepts like life, death, fear, loneliness, etc have been described the same way and the reader will come to more or less the same conclusion about these concepts in both stories. In both stories we find out that how complicated a human thought could be which is almost difficult to realize this complexity with considering human actions and behavior. We can also infer from stories that what we humans are is really how we think and feel which lead us through our behavior.
In both stories we repeatedly see the words ‘old’ and ‘night’. I think both of them connote one concept and that is ‘the end’. Being old could be the end of life and night could be the end of day or life.
There are also some differences in both stories despite all the common ideas they share. In Well-Lighted Place we see that how human can be contented and happy by just not being alone and feeling loneliness. The only thing the old man needs in some hope and friends to bring him back to life, but in the Tell-Tale Heart we see that how human can be dangerous over something worthless and do irreversible actions which will be resulted in guilty conscience. It is implied in the Tell-Tale Heart story that for the number of humans in the world we have different thoughts, beliefs and behaviors. We need to learn how to deal with each other even though we have nothing in common. The role of social skills and how to deal with different problems can be seen clearly in the Tell-Tale Heart story.
Best regards
Your Student
Mohammad Reza
(GS 25775)
Hello Pn. Ju,
ReplyDeleteHere's what I think of 'A Clean, Well-Lighted Place' and 'The Tell-Tale Heart'. The symbolism in both stories are rather obvious. In both stories, the nature of life is being presented through the usage of the words 'night' and 'old man'. In the course of life, humans are to go through the four main stages; namely birth, aging, sickness and death. No one can escape these elements. Hence, the matter of death is being discussed in these stories.
The title 'A Clean, Well-Lighted Place' itself is a symbolism. A well-lighted space suggests liveliness and cheerfulness whereas a dark space suggests something mysterious and dull. In the story, the place where the old man sits is often associated with the word shadow. This, to me suggests that his once colorful, young time is over. What's left is the unknown number of years ahead of him and memories for him to reminisce. He once had a wife and now he's left alone and old. His tragedy of committing suicide also portrays his intention of not living his life as a loner. Hence the cafe is the only place he can find solace and peace. In a way, it also suggests that the old man is denying the fact that he will someday die. By loafing at the cafe, the lights give him a sense of assurance that he's still alive. His reluctance of going home also suggests that he might have to spend the night alone. He might also think that something fearful in the night might take his life away.
The old man in 'The Tell-Tale Heart' is also viewed as an insignificant figure for he was refered to as 'the old man' from the very beginning of the story. As the story was told by the narrator, I think he sees a very close connection between the old man and his evil eye. Everyone knows that any old man would not have many years ahead of him and because death is approaching, the thought of dying someday is also a part of their mind and soul. This is portrayed through the eyes. Therefore whenever the narrator sees the eye, he feels insecure and fear.
Night is a word commonly used in both stories. It suggests something dark, mysterious and even death. In 'The Tell'Tale Heart', night time is the time when the narrator plots something evil on the old man. At one point of the story when the ray was shone on the old man's eye, it set the narrator off his walls of sanity . In the dark, both the narrator and the eye couldn't see anything and it was the perfect time to carry out the evil deeds. Perhaps, the evil eye was a proof that it was only the narrator's delusion. The description of the eye at the beginning of the story could suggest that the old man might have cataract and it doesn't prove anything sinister at all =P
Thank you for reading.
Chai Hui Ling
GS26896
Hi Puan Ju, hi all!
ReplyDeleteOk, there is nothing much I want to put up here because all have been covered by Suet Yet. I just want to add a little bit about the old man from the two books. From my point of view, the old men here are mystery and ambiguous, partly because we only see them through the narrator’s perspective. We do not know their names, their occupations, or where they live. Both old men have money, no friends, live alone, old man from “Well-Lighted” likes to spend time in a cafe, from “Tell-Tale” the man is bedridden and some hints to show it is terrible to be old. I think the old man in “Tell-Tale” is a father figure. The narrator may be the old man's son. The old man has done nothing bad to the narrator, as Poe illustrates: "I loved the old man. He never wronged me. He had never given me insult. For his gold I had no desire . . ." Love here means that the love of a son towards his father but because the "vulture" eye of the old man is symbolizing parental surveillance which is also the paternal principles of right and wrong, the narrator feels suffocated and he killed his own father. In “Well-Lighted” I think the fact that the old man is deaf symbolizes how he is cut off from the rest of the world. He is obviously lonely. He also already tried to kill himself. He gets drunk every night indicates that he has nothing better to do in the last years of his life. The old waiter defends the drinking man because he can relate and see himself in the man. He sympathizes knowing that he, too, prefers a clean well lighted place to drink and will later appreciate such a place in his old drinking age. The old man is in his final years of life and the old waiter recognizes that he soon will have the same fate as the old man. A progression of age is seen among the characters demonstrating the transition from being young and social to aging and feeling lonely.
Usually in literature, darkness symbolizes evil, ignorance, danger, etc. Night is used throughout the stories to symbolize death, darkness of the soul, and loss of faith. Consider all the terrible things that happen at night: Night in “Tell-Tale” is thus a metaphor for the way the soul was submerged in suffering and hopelessness. In “Well-lighted”, the cafe is lighted is a contrast with the darkness of death and bad thoughts. The darkness must be avoided because in the darkness everything is a "nada". The lighted place is used by the old man to escape from loneliness. I believe all of us are going to have the same opinions for these two words which constantly used in both stories: right?
Thank you!
Affah Mohd Apandi
GS26653
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi Pn Juridah and friends,
ReplyDeleteTo compare and contrast what you think of the two words in the story The Tell-Tale Heart by Edgar Allan Poe and A Clean, Well-Lighted Place .
The old man in the Tell-Tale Heart is described as clouded ,pale ,blue “vulture-like” eye which so distresses the narrator.The old man was old and pale where I think that the writer wanted us to picture the old man is a man without good health probably near to his death because he, the narrator has the intention to kill the old man.The vulture eye that the old man has also is a way the narrator tries to associate it to death because in certain culture, they are animals that will appear when death is near. The time the story is not indicated but since there is a need to use the lantern and the time was when the man fell asleep ,we can assume that it is very late in the night. Usually old people has difficulty sleeping. It should be very late since the time that the murder was commited, the narrator can hear the old man’s heartbeat.The narrator first admits to hearing death watches are a sign of impending death. One variety of death watch beetles raps its head against surfaces, presumably as part of mating ritual,while others emit a ticking sound. Henry David Thoreau ab suggested in 1838 that death watch beetles sound similar to a heartbeat . The old man also has difficulty sleeping because he is old and worried that when he sleeps he may not be able to wake up ie: die.
In the story A Clean, Well-Lighted Place the old man was deaf and he likes to sit late because he likes the sound of people around him so that he does not feel lonely.He was rich man but very lonely.In the tell-tale heart,the old man was lonely too because there is no indication of any wife or friends or family members. In this A Clean, Well-Lighted Place , the old man is rich and lonely but he still has a niece that stopped him from committing suicide. Anyway both man are old men with nothing much to hope for and every day is just the same as if they are waiting for their death. It would seem that they the old men are old men with nothing much to do and are afraid of night where night is usually associated with darkness and death which is impending.The old waiter is also the same, he can’t sleep until morning where he perceive that in the morning that he is less likely to die but as nighttime comes he is afraid of death.The old waiter who defends the man that it is better for the man to drink in public than in his own place because he experienced it and it is very lonely in his own house but if he drinks in a public place, at least that he feels not as lonely.The old man is in his final years of life and the old waiter recognizes that he will soon have the same fate as the old man. A progression of age is seen here.
Edu5277 Literature
Yap Hwei Ping (GS25575)
Hellow people...Pn Ju...
ReplyDeleteI'm going to be very brief. The Clean Well Lighted Place brings about the conversation between an old man and a younger man. The younger man is adamant about calling it a day, to get back home and the older man clearly has nothing to go home to. He stays out through the night and gets to bed only at the break of dawn. The 'shadow' element is constantly in the presence of the old man, indicating an end on his trail, maybe. 'Night' brings about the end...death...so the old man is pushing through the night to sleep in the safety of daylight.
As for The Tell Tale Heart, I will have to agree with Tam first, concerning the issue of the murderer being a woman instead of a man. Now, about the story itself, a murder is planned and executed. All goes well till conscience kicks in, in the middle of a conversation that's going on between the murderer and the authorities. The murderer is delusional towards the end, and pretty much admits commiting the murder. Again here, 'night' carries significant value since the planning and the murder all take place at night. The murdered notes on being an entirely different person during the day, spending the nights plotting the murder.
The 'old men' from both stories in my opinion, attract death. They fear it yet it is there, unmoving, just as the day give way to night, they would have to give way to death. One could die naturally or invite murder by just having the wrong pair of eyes.
Thank you...
-Archanaa Maniappen-
GS26691
Margaret Anthoney GS26688
ReplyDeleteHai Dr. Juridah and friends,
The main focus of "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" by Earnest Hemingway is on the pain of old age suffered by a man that in a cafe late one night. ‘‘The Tell-Tale Heart,’’ by Edgar Allan Poe is about a man who murders his old friend. The word of `old man` and `night` are constantly used in both short stories.
Hemingway contrasts light during the day time and dark at night to show the difference between this man and the young people around him, and it shows us the desperate emptiness of a life near finished without the fruit of its labour, and the aggravation of the old man's restless mind that cannot find peace. Darkness at night is a symbol of fear, loneliness and hopelessness. For example, the old man hides in the shadows of the leaves because he recognizes the shortcoming of his refuge. Perhaps he is drawn to the shadows so that the darkness of his own age will not be so visible as it would be in the full force of the electric light. His body is dark with the effects of illness. Even his ears bring him a sort of darkness as they hold out the sounds of the world.
In `The Tell-Tale Heart`, we only hear about the old man's bedroom, which is a place where horror plays in the dark night while the old man sleeps, completely unaware. This story taps our fears of the dark at night and what the dark might hold. In my opinion, the old man stood for a symbol of innocence. Yet, the evil eye was not really the old man but a weakness of the old man that he could not help.
Human nature is a delicate balance of light and dark or good and evil however, when there is a shift, for whatever reason, the dark or perverse side surfaces. How and why this "dark side" emerges differs from person to person. What may push one individual "over the edge" will only cause a raised eyebrow in another. In this case, it is the "vulture eye" of the old man that makes the narrator's blood run cold. It is this irrational fear which evokes the dark side, and eventually leads to murder.
Hi Mdm Juridah and my friends,
ReplyDeleteFrom my view, similarity in both stories is narrator’s setting is in dark and shadowy elements. Shadows are formed not from a lack of light, but from an obstruction of light. In both stories, dark element stand for secrecy and the shadow element represents the soul of the person. In The Tell Tale Heart, narrator located dark element in the old man's bedroom: "His room was as black as pitch with the thick darkness,..." He doesn't realize that the person he needs protection from is already in the four walls of his home and the old man does not know what is to come. A Clean, Well-Lighted Place started story's image of the lighted café in the sea of dark nothingness perfectly where view of a world with no hope, no solace, and no escape save that man creates for the old man. The old man sits through another sleepless night where in the quiet of a well-lighted cafe.
In my opinion, difference I found in both stories is the way narrator describe the character in the story. The narrator of The Tell Tale Heart allows reader to formulate their own opinion. In a way, narrator does not discriminate the murderer look like, whether is a white male or the murderer could be female or Asian. However, while he does not develop the characters he does lay out the symbolism where they can be analyzed. Symbolism is present in the story where one can find it and wrap his own ideas around it and attempt to get inside the mind of narrator. Narrator of A Clean, Well-Lighted Place described three main character in detail. Firstly, old man is the elderly in this story. He also a deaf gentleman who drinks gracefully near the back of the cafe and a man's attempted suicide the previous week. Secondly is young waiter who is impatient with the old man, hoping to return home to his wife by a decent hour. Third character is older waiter who is the veteran waiter and understands the deeper things in life.
The word of night used in both stories is symbolizes death. In The Tell Tale Heart story, narrator used ‘night’ word to represent the death of innocence for the old man. Narrator decided to take the life of an old man for no other reason except that he had a pale blue eye. ‘Night’ also means terrible things that will happen. The terrible thing happen is narrator killed the old man.
In A Clean, Well-Lighted Place story, night stand for tremendously saddening and it influence the old man who tried to kill himself the week. Besides that, ‘night’ also stands for darkness of the soul. The old man not sad solely because of the predicament he's in, it's sad because of his outlook on life. He believes that life is not worth living.
In A Clean, Well-Lighted Place, the old man's presence will express bemoan. The young waiter generally expresses a wish to go home but he cannot do it as well because the old man still stays in cafe. Old man usually will have negative thinking in their life. It seems through the old man is saying that there is no meaning in life. Everything is nothing. There is no good or bad; no right or wrong the only thing that matters is making life somewhat pleasant. I addition, a progression of age is seen among the characters demonstrating the transition from being young and social to aging and feeling lonely.
In The Tell Tale Heart story, old man represents a helpless victim. The narrator felt compelled to kill the old man in order to dispose of his evil eye. Finally he made up his mind to kill the old man, it took him eight days to kill him. All because he wanted to see the old man's eye open, before committing the evil deed. He even shined a ray of light directly on the old man's eye, just so he can remember its image. "Whenever it fell upon me my blood ran cold, and so by degrees, very gradually, I made up my mind to take the life of the old man, and thus rid myself of the eye forever."
GS 25354
Yew Wenting
Hi Mdm Ju and my fellow classmates
ReplyDeleteObviously, both stories reflect events that occured at "night" and include an "old man". To me, these two stories are simply telling about two different old men who have different behaviours.
The first "old man" in Tell-Tale was obviously suffering from hallucination because of his actions. It seemed like he was normal at first, but changed drastically when he killed someone. Perhaps everything happened by accident, thus triggered his delusions and psychotic breakdown. In my opinion, the "night" in this story simply means the gloomy mood and surroundings, but it was very hectic at the same time. Repeated words such as "very" (line 1), "with what" (line 13), "cautiously" (line 23) and tense vocabulary such as "Hearken", "madman", "Ha!", and "Yes" clearly prove the agitated gloom.
The next "old man" in "Well-Lighted Place" was vice-versa. He was actually coping with his despair, therefore he had the sanity, unlike in the Tell-Tale. The "old man" did not disturb other people when he was drinking, even the bartender was defending him. When the waiter refused to give him more brandy, he silently paid the bill and went out. So yeah, it was gloomy, but more calm. Supposedly when we read it, it feels like the time stopped.
Muhd Khudri Bin Johari
GS27186
Hi Puan Ju and friends,
ReplyDeleteOne of the main similarity of these stories are the main characters who are old man. Hemingway has used the contrast, light and shadow to differentiate the old man and young characters in the story. The old man is also described as deaf in the story and this indicates his separation from the physical world.
On the other hand, Edgar Poe writes this story from the perspective of the murderer of the old man. ‘‘The Tell-Tale Heart’’ exposes the dark side of humankind. The narrator’s obsession with the old man’s one vulture-eye indicates the insanity that the narrator wants to deny.
One of the most prevalent theme of these two stories are deaths. " The Tell-Tale Heart is about an old man who was killed by an accentric man.The narrator is obsessed with the notion that the old man actually has the "evil eye". The narrator also feels that a person can inflict harm on another by simply looking at them that he carries the cold-blooded murder of the old man. The murder was planned and carried at night, shows that this is the time when negative forces takes place over positive. Although the narrator love the old men but the "vulture eye" over ride his love and make him commit those negative acts of planning and murdering him.
“A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” is set in a small café in Spain, as two waiters prepare to close the establishment for the night. The place is empty except for a regular customer, a deaf old man drinking alone at one of the tables. This story also set at night which foreshadows death and the feel of nothingness of the old men. One of the most notable contrast in the story : light and dark.The major thematic concern of the story is the conflict between the two generation.This is illustrated by the contrast between the two waiters, the young waiter represents materialism and youthfulness and the old waiter symbolizes the perspective and wisdom of age, which is illustrated by his empathy for the old man's profound despair and alleged suicide attempt.
Good Day everyone,
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, these two stories were written by two different authors in two different eras. These writers too had their own ways of writing short stories according to their field of interest and genres. Clean-Well Lighted Place (CWLP) is easy to understand compared to The Tell-Tale Heart (TTTH). The most common similarities are the authors are male, and both stories talks about old man as their main character.
In CWLP, describes about an old man who has a lot of money to drink (brandy) at the bar, but, he can’t use his wealth to buy happiness. He is always lonely as there is nobody to accompany him during his older days. The only companion he has is the cafe and his brandy. Ernest Hemingway has used many dichotomy in his CWLP, which shows the two extreme, dark-light, night-day, young-old, and lonely-not lonely. In this story too, dark or darkness is used, whereby basically dark means negative elements, such as, scared, evil, not pure, revengeful, and fear. The old in this story has a lot of mixed feelings like, sad, disappointed, void, lonely, and some degree of fear of darkness. However, the author has also portrayed the old man with self respect, whereby in spite of him been drunk everyday without fail, he still can keep his drinking place clean and always pays for his drinks at the cafe. In this story, old people should not be let alone, they must always have someone to accompany them as they need attention and care at that sensitive age.
In TTTH, an insane person, killing an old man just because of his eyes was his biggest threat. The story has nameless and ageless killer, the narrator of this story is also unknown. The killer thinks that what he has done is right as he got rid of the ‘evil eye’ by killing the old man. The killer too very confident that he had a reason for killing, as the killer thought that one of the old man’s eye was evil. The killer also thought that the eye resembled like a vulture, which intimidating the killer. The killer was portrayed as dangerous and out of his mind person or mad. As we can see that, he said... ‘but why would you say that I am mad? The disease had sharpened my senses-not destroyed-not dulled them'. The killer is trying to convince us that the disease his suffering from is not serious. The insane person killed the old man and cut and laid him under the floorboard of the house. This killing took place at night, a very silent night, as the killer could hear the clock’s minutes hand moving. The killer feels that what he did was very satisfying and will not be caught by the policemen but finally he develops a strong headache and becomes restless as he could imagine and hear the sound of the old man’s heart beat. Ultimately, he has no choice but to confess his offence and get the body out of the hideout. This story is thrilling and at the same time, it gives a clear picture that, insane person can do extremes in order to achieve their desire and killing is definitely in their list.
SHAMMINE DHARMALINGAM
GS24384
Hello to Mdm Juridah & friends.
ReplyDeleteTo me, both stories represented similar themes -old age, darkness & loneliness. Although both has differences but there were many obvious similarities in terms of characters and settings. In addition, both stories had many dichotomies such as young and old, day and night, life and death, etc. These concepts are the basis of human ideas and uniqueness and such features made us sometimes have different ideas and personalities. Thus, we can infer from the stories that human’s behavior is somewhat influenced by his/her thoughts or ideas about certain issue.
Another similarity in the stories is the usage of repeated words such as ‘old’ and ‘night’. In my opinion, both words connote ‘an end’ as old means an end to one’s life while night means an end of a day. As such, these two words that represented both stories showed the end of something. The similar representation in both stories was shown in the characters as well. In Well-Lighted Place (WLP) by Ernest Hemingway, the main character was an old, deaf man and this has represented another issue in both stories; loneliness. The man would stay for his drinks till the wee hours and his stay showed that he was a lonely man with no one to return home to. In addition, his deafness supported his lonesome where it portrayed that he was lonely in both the outside and inside world. Meanwhile, the gloomy setting of the story (night time) also supported loneliness, darkness and an end to daytime.
In The Tell-Tale Heart (TTH) by Edgar Allan Poe, the narrator’s age was not revealed but the main character that played an important part in visualizing the concept of darkness, loneliness and an end was an old man. This time around, the innocent old man was portrayed as being lonely and had to opt to ‘hire’ an assistant to help him. However, his kindness of giving the assistant a job was repaid in a horrid manner by the man – his murder. The man was driven by the old man’s evil eyes which persuaded him to commit the insane deed. The old man’s end came soon after he was murdered by the assistant whose seemingly dark side (another representation of darkness) could not be hid anymore.
Finally, I feel that both characters in WLP and TTH needed to cast away their loneliness and darkness. The old man in WLP needed to have company to share his life with while the assistant needed a company to share his anxiety and fear. By talking to people they were comfortable with, both would not feel out casted and did unnecessary actions. We can also learn from both stories that everybody need attention and love hence, old people should not be ignored their rights to love and care.
Thank you.
CYNTHIA JALIL
GS23632
hello everyone...
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, there are a few similiarities in the story A clean, Well Lighted Place and A Tell Tale heart in terms of their main characters. An old man in a story of A clean, Well Lighted place is someone who is lonely and he has a good character inside. That is why he likes to come to a clean bar every night just to spend his time there by drinking. Meanwhile, the the old is portrayed by the narrator as someone who is very lonely and the narrator believes that he can do a big favour to the old men if he kills the old man.
Boths stories shares the same theme which are loneliness and meaningless life. That is why the night and old man are constantly being used in both stories. I believe that, the night symbolizes an old man which can be related with darkness, lonely, dull and empty. Nothing in life is interesting anymore in old man's life. Normally at night, people just stay at home sleep. They did not work and they have nothing to do except sleeping. That is why night symbolizes an old man because they have no job and they do not know what to do.
Growing old is also one of the issue in both stories. As a human being, the phase of growing old is hardly being accepted by us. It is because, our lives is going to end soon and it definitely will affect our emotions. Old people become more sensitive and plus when their physical body becoming weaker day by day. That is why, these issues have been highlighted in both stories as potrayed by these two old men.
Siti Aliah Bt. Amirruddin
GS 24371
In both stories, Poe and Hemingway highlighted the stigma that most people have about being and growing old. Some people try very hard not to look old as being old reminds them of death and the feeling of hopeless to people around especially, family members. We can see the contrast of these stories, where one old man wanted to commit suicide, but stopped by the niece and the other one being murdered by a schizophrenic who lives with him.
ReplyDeleteIn A Clean, Well-Lighted Place, Hemingway described being old as nasty. The clean, and well-lighted place, the setting of the story symbolises the old man. Clean, being the way how the waiter perceived him to be with the way he drinks without spilling the brandy although he is already drunk. Being lonely is also another adjective and characteristic used to describe the old man. Having no wife and only a niece to take care of him tells us how bad his life is. Ironically, since being old can only be understood by the older waiter, he pitied the old man. He understood what it feels like to be lonely because he himself is lonely. The other issue that can be highlighted is the generation gap that exists between the young waiter and the lonely old man. The old man said thank you when he pour the drink, but there was no reply from the young waiter. Isn’t that familiar with the young generation that exist in our society today, where students do not think highly and respect teachers anymore?
In The Tell-Tale Heart the old man is described as having an Evil Eye. The pale blue eye, with a film over it describe how old he is with the film describing he has a cataract. In this short story, death is not a decision that the old man made, it was the persona in this story who decided to end the life of the poor, harmless old man. In both stories, we can see that these two old men are harmless. The old man in The Tell-Tale Heart is loved by the schizophrenic who killed him. The persona said I loved the old man, the ironic is that he hated the old man Evil Eye (not eyes). It was not his choice to kill the old man; it was his unstable mind that decided to put an end to the old man’s lives. Since Poe also had a drinking problem, we can relate the unstable mind to the effects of drinking problem that he had. It also portrays the scientific effects of drinking where most people tend to be abusive because of alcohol.
The two words night and old used in these two stories are used to stress on how generally people think of both. It is human’s nature to grow from young to old and it is the law of nature for day to turn to night. The only difference is that you will face another day, but you will never turn young again. The funny thing is that how young a night can be with all the nightlife that we sometimes go through in life. So, both words, night and old is just used to describe the way most people live their life when they are old, but night not necessarily means death or old it means that at one point of life you will stop your hectic and active lifestyle because everybody needs a rest or pause for a while.
GS25177
Hi everyone..
ReplyDeleteThere are some similarities between both of the short stories. In A clean, well-lighted place, the author presents symbols of night and darkness. Both of these symbols mean loneliness. When, someone feels lonely, there's nothing much that can be done. Thus, this will brings towards the feeling of hopelessness. That's why the old man tried to kill himself. He felt hopeless and tried to end the feeling by commit suicide. He thought that it is meaningless to continue his life. The older waiter and the old man both have a fear of loneliness, going home to nothing. The loneliness that the dark night brings. It was a fear of being lonely, it was something that went away when it could be seen in a clean and well lighted place or in the light of day.The night also symbolizes the old man. Night refers to the end of the day. The old man is now old and he was towards the end of his life.
These symbols also are clearly shown in The Tell-tell Heart. The dark symbolized by the drapes or shutter in the old man's bedroom. The shutters represent privacy and secrecy because they stay closed and keep the room dark. The old man believed that when the shutters closed, no one will harm him and he felt protected. In this short story, there is a symbol of midnight. However, the midnight is contrast with the night from A Clean, well-lighted place. Midnight here represents rebirth. A person can decide the path either they want to continue to which they have been follow or change a new one. This is because the author tells that the character stood there for one hour at midnight.
In my opinion, A clean well,lighted place is more easy to understand compared to the tell-tale heart. As it is shorter in terms of length, the language that has been used by the author also is simple.
Khairunnisa Mohd Daud
GS24204
Hi, Madam Juridah and my dear friends...
ReplyDeleteThe concept of loneliness is redeemed in “A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” and the situation of high imagination or think overtly was redeemed in “The Tell-Tale Heart”. Comparisons might be brought out. For a symbiotic relationship to exist between these two stories, it became imperative that both of the stories patched their differences by communicating in the language of dichotomy.
But there are still some similarities where it talks about the character of an old man in both stories. For example, the first paragraph in “A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” it shows clearly the main character of the story is an old man where “It was very late and everyone had left the cafe except an old man who sat in the shadow the leaves of the tree made against the electric light” whereas in “The Tell-Tale Heart” the third paragraph in last line shows clearly that an old man takes place again here where “So you see he would have been a very profound old man, indeed, to suspect that every night, just at twelve, I looked in upon him while he slept”.
The issues of night and old man were appeared in both stories, shows that the author is more precisely tells about her feelings of love and care at the same time. The elderly people always need extra eye on them where time changes them to be babyish again.
In different perspective of that, learning any language comes wholeheartedly from interest and love for the language. I don’t think anyone can be forced to study a language. If forced into such a situation, the person will only end up memorizing passage and paragraphs and parroting them with no notion about the text. Instead of pressing the panic button and raising the adrenalin level unnecessarily, my suggestion is to take it easy, relax and pick up your favorite book or story and read through. Enjoy what is written. Best seller novels should put you in the right road. Set aside time everyday to read a section of the book. You will soon find yourself hooked on the reading more books especially in literature context. You may also be a good explorer of literature component.
Thank you.
Hazreen Binti Haji Abdul Hamid
GS24475
Gopalan Aroo GS 24230
ReplyDeleteHello , My honourable Lecturer, Mdm Juridah and friends ,
From my view, The Clean Well Lighted Place highlighted about the death of an old man who was separated from his family and public life through a conversation between an old man and a young man who is living with a family and wife. In this story Hemingway uses the waiters to judge the old man portray towards the type of drinker. In the Tell Tale Heart , where the narrator insisting that he is not mad and throughout the story he is obsessed with time who kills his victim and it can be said that the story is of thrilling interest and wild and readable.
The similarity in both stories is narrator’s setting is dark and shadow type of elements used.The elements of shadow are from an obstruction of light.Both the stories revealed the elements of secrecy and the soul . One is written with the old man with deaf and the other story written, with the obsession of the old man’s vulture-eye .In the Tell Tale story narrator choose the dark element in the old man’s bedroom whereas in the Clean ,Well-Lighted Place started story’s image of the lighted café in the sea of dark ‘nada ‘ nothingness perfectly where view of a world with no hope no future and no escape for the old man.
Both the stories can be differentiated in the way that the narrator describe the characters. In the Tell Tale story, the narrator creates his own knowledge he does not discriminate the murderer look like whether is a white male or murderer could be female.Narrator of A Clean Well-lighted placebdescribed three main charactes. The elderly appeared old man, deaf gentleman, young waiter,and the old waiter.Both the writers choose the time of night where many secret things can be planned and to succeed in life either it is a good or bad things.In the Tell Tale Heart Edgar uses the old man and night whereas in the A Clean ,Well-Lighted Place Hemingway uses the old age suffered by a man that in a café late one night.Both the old men from both the stories face death at night where murder is planned and executed.
Both stories handles about young and old, dark and light,happy and sad, and money doesn’t mean in life and the moral values are very important aspect of life. People with no purpose in life will never succeed. Human life is totally composed of dark and light, good and bad, happy and sad, win and lost . This is what both the writers wants to revealed to the readers and the world.
Thank You……..
Hi every body,
ReplyDeleteThere are some similarities and also some differences in these two stories- “A Clean, Well-Lighted Place” and “The Tell-Tale Heart”. Both of these stories happen in the same setting which is night and darkness. As we know, night and darkness show the evilness of this time of day, because they are symbols of loneliness, isolation, and death. In these two stories we have the same character- an old man- whose names are not mentioned. Maybe the authors of these stories want to show us the unimportance role of old peoples in our world that are ignored by young people. Moreover, in these stories we have lots of contrasts such as old and young, night and day which refer to the differences that exist in our world. Also I think that both of these stories are moral stories. They make us aware of the world of old people who needs our attention.
One of the differences in these two stories is related to the way of thinking of two old men. Although both of them are alone, but the one in “A Clean, Well- Lighted Place” prefer to be awake until morning, because he hates darkness of night, but the old man in “The Tell-tale Heart” prefer to sit in his room where is dark. The other differences of these stories refer to their point of view. “A Clean Well-Lighted Place” is narrated in third person, but the second one is narrated in first person.
The two words- night and old man- are repeated a lot in these two stories. In my opinion, the reason of using these two words is to show us the darkness of old people’s world. They feel loneliness and isolated in this world, because others especially young people do not pay attention to them.
Saeideh,
GS25784
Hi Mdm Juridah and friends..
ReplyDeleteHonestly, there are some similarities of themes inside these two short stories. Both came from the concept of darkness which symbolize bad sign and another one came from loneliness of old man. Generally, when human being feels lonely, they will think negative unlike normal person does because they have no one to talk to, no one to share their problems,only hopes for something that will dissapear in life forever.In they end, they might feel to commit suicide because cannot find any solution.
Talking about these two short stories, there are also comparison of young and old, day and night, life and death and others because in the Tell Tale Heart, the life of the old man seems to be unhappy and dull because of loneliness in his life. I am sure, in life, we may feels all this cycles, sometimes we feel alone eventhough our love ones are besides us and sometimes we feel lonely.For example, day normally symbolizes happinesss, open space,easy meanwhile night with the gloomy setting symbolizes the negative concept such death.
Therefore, between these two short stories,I could say that both represent the same concept which is darkness, loneliness, unhappiness and dull.
Thank You.
Siti Nuha Ab Aziz
GS24085
Hi everyone.
ReplyDeleteTo my mind, both the stories revolved around the character of an old man being unwanted, helpless and lonely. In both stories we repeatedly see the words ‘old’ and ‘night’. I think both of them indicate concepts of the end, end of the night, end of the life, and also indicate death, darkness and loneliness. Furthermore, night means terrible things that will happen in life. Old means loneliness, unhealthy, sadness and depressing.
I think both stories are full of differences such as, life and death, young and old, day and night, etc.
In the story A Clean, Well-Lighted Place the old man was deaf and likes to go late because he wants to hear the sound of people around him so that he does not give him loneliness. He was a rich man but alone. In the tell-tale heart, the old man was lonely too because there is no evidence of family or friends. In A Clean, the old man has a niece that stopped him from committing suicide. Anyway both men are old men with nothing much to hope for and every day is just the same as if they are waiting for their death. They are afraid of night where night is usually related to darkness and death. Also the old waiter is the same; he can’t sleep until morning where he perceives that in the morning that he is less likely to die. Both stories are related to death, but old man in A clean tried to kill himself and old man in tell –tale was murdered.
In the both dramas, the young people hope to the life, hope being alive and live without any darkness, loneliness and danger.
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vahideh gs26717
URANUS
ReplyDeleteDear all;
In my opinion, both stories belong to the dark literature; although they carry a sympathetic meaning to elderly people. Poe's theme has been blended with horror and fear whereas in Hemingway's it if filled with romance and love. Both stories apply many metaphors such as darkness, night, death, loneliness, and old places to connote with old guys. It convey the message that when somebody grows older, he has to suffer from loneliness, darkness and old places and they are ignored by society.
The narrator in Hemingway's is third person but in Poe's is first person.
Good evening Dr.Juridah &my classmates
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, as all of my friends commented before, the two stories shared the same character whom is the old man. But the different is how each author has represented the plot. For example A Clean, Well-Lighted Place" addresses this question through the character of the older waiter, a man pondering the meaning of life. The older waiter observes the old man and comes to the conclusion that without a motivation to live, one wanders in a world of nothingness. There are three main characters in "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place," and each represents a different view on the meaning of life. The young waiter naively believes that his life has purpose, in the form of his marriage and job. In contrast to the young waiter, there is the old man who has nothing left to live for. The older waiter plays the part of an unbiased observer who is able to relate to both of these two extremes. As the short story progresses, the older waiter identifies with the old man. He begins to understand the reason for this man's despair and realizes that he is not much different himself. This realization begins as the young waiter is describing the old man's attempted suicide.
Whereas in Tell Tale Heart, according toEdgar Allan Poe, the old man had never done anything to warrant his murder. However, the old man’s cloudy, pale blue eye bothers the author tremendously. The author or believes that only by killing the old man can he get rid of the eye’s overpowering malignant force. The old man is apparently quite rich, for he possesses “treasures” and “gold” and he locks the window shutters in his room for fear of robbers. However, the author states that he has no desire for his gold. In fact, he claims that he loves the old man. Through the Edgar, the reader understands the horror that the old man experiences as he realizes that his companion is about to kill him. Edgar claims that he too knows this horror very well.
In terms of differences, the two stories differ in their type of narrating. Typically, Hemingway uses two types of narration: the first type he uses the actual subjective 1st person narrative whereas the second type is the objective third person
whereas , A notable aspect of “The Tell-Tale Heart” is that the story is told from the first-person point of view. The story is a monologue of a nervous narrator telling the reader how he murdered someone.
In terms of second question, relating to night and dark, death and night are closely linked.for example Edgar explains that “the old man’s hour had come,” all the while painfully aware of the hours it takes to kill a victim and clean up the scene of the crime. also Hemingway uses as Darkness is a symbol of fear and loneliness.
Kalthoum.R.M.Said
GS24711
Good evening everyone!
ReplyDeleteWell, I do agree that both stories have a lot of similarities in the sense that they use old men as main characters and these men are portrayed as being alone and friendless. No one seems to care about them and they live alone. They are weak almost fragile and rather helpless. Generally they are quite insignificant, yet they seem to disturb or rather irritate two young men. For example in "A clean well-lighted place" the young waited is irritated by the fact that the old man does not want to leave although it is late, so much so that he tells the old man that the drinks are finished so as to make him leave.
In "The tell-tale heart" the young man is so disturbed by the old man's eye that he murders him. In both stories, it is clear that the old men are defenceless when confronted by someone younger ; the old man in “A Clean well-lighted place” is forced to leave the cafe even though he is not ready to do so while the old man in "The tell-tale heart" is brutally murdered and his body parts dismembered. This tells us that the younger generation do not care about the aged, nor do they have any respect nor love for them.
In addition, both stories are set at night. Night is depicted as somewhat negative, dark and sombre. In "A Clean well-lighted place" the old man prefers the cafe because it is bright and well lighted, he does not want to return home to a dark house. Night signifies insomnia and is rather sinister in nature as we see in"The tell-tale heart" for instance where the old man hears sounds that he would not normally be able to hear in the daytime and he is unable to sleep as it scares him. It is also during the night that he is murdered for no clear reason at all.
Here in the two stories, night is associated with loneliness and death as even in the first story the old man attempts suicide at night. In both stories, the old men's lives are purposeless, they do not have a reason to live.
Perhaps what the authors are trying to convey is the fact that each of us will become old one day and that our lives will become as insignificant as that of these old men. However, we have to remember that there is always day after each night, in other words hope.
Santha Devi Arumugam
GS 26611
Hi Mdm Juridah and friends..
ReplyDeleteall my friend wrote what was in my mind and i agree about the similiraty in the 2 stories "the darkness, the lonliness and the comparission between the old and the young age.
the difference between the 2 stories is in the style of narrating.the clean well lighted place is written in the third person limited omniscient while The Tell Tale Heart is written in the first person point of view.
The other differences is that in The Clean Well Lighted place, the old man wanted to find the light and doesn't wants to sleep. He feels the well lighted cafe is a safe refuge while in the tell tale heart the old man sits in the dark room and is able to sleep despite feeling lonely.
Night and old man represent the death the end of the life which was a concern in the stories.
hi there...
ReplyDeleteThe difference I found in both stories is the way narrator describe the character in the story. The narrator of The Tell Tale Heart allows reader to formulate their own opinion. In a way, narrator does not discriminate the murderer look like, whether is a white male or the murderer could be female or Asian. However, while he does not develop the characters he does lay out the symbolism where they can be analyzed. Symbolism is present in the story where one can find it and wrap his own ideas around it and attempt to get inside the mind of narrator. Narrator of A Clean, Well-Lighted Place described three main character in detail. Firstly, old man is the elderly in this story. He also a deaf gentleman who drinks gracefully near the back of the cafe and a man's attempted suicide the previous week. Secondly is young waiter who is impatient with the old man, hoping to return home to his wife by a decent hour. Third character is older waiter who is the veteran waiter and understands the deeper things in life.
The word of night used in both stories is symbolizes death. In The Tell Tale Heart story, narrator used ‘night’ word to represent the death of innocence for the old man. Narrator decided to take the life of an old man for no other reason except that he had a pale blue eye. ‘Night’ also means terrible things that will happen. The terrible thing happen is narrator killed the old man.
Hi Mdm Ju and my friends...
ReplyDeleteI've tried a few time to post a comment but i just don't know why it can get through. My comment will be very brief. I have read both of the story and yes, obviously it has some similarities. Firstly, as what some of you mentioned before, it was both written by male author.The main character in the stories is lonely old man who have to deal with a young man. Both of the stories also mentioned about "death" where in the first story (Clean-Well Lighted Place) the old man is trying to commit suicide but luckily he has been saved by his niece and in another story, Tell tale Heart, the old man has been killed by an insance young man. The stories also both shows that some of the young man has no more respect towards the old man as they think that the old man is a burden.
In my opinion,the word "night" and "old man" that being used in the stories shows loneliness and darkness. I believe that many of us are scare of night as well as being an old man since we always think that nothing in life is interesting anymore in old man's life, as mentioned by Siti Aliah's before. "Night" symbolized the loneliness and emptyness of the old man heart and feeling. The old man always feel unwanted and useless.
Thank you.
Samsiah Binti Abdullah
GS25353
Good day Mrs Juridah
ReplyDeleteI'm facing some problems to post over the blog...
Here are my view of points:
(emailed 28th July 2010)
I feel that both the stories symbolize a personal level of episode which put into actions. The stories impose on gloomy and loneliness that would have confronted to lose their enthusiasm. The characters exposed heroes of themselves.
A Clean, Well-Lighted Place describe on an old gentleman who is trying to escape from the darkness. He finds himself lighted-up in the bar; while having drinks decently. He feels that he has no meaning in life; no right or wrong; any good or bad. He fears of nothingness that brings dark night to him. I believe there is philosophical idea that is being portrayed here. The old mans action has no measurement till he try to kill himself. It is sad because of his outlook upon his life. He believes that life is not worth living.
He portrays two different stages of lives; first, young waiter – energetic and followed by him and the other waiter – started to see the meaningless of life. Darkness will shine in day if one is lonely. The only thing that can have meaning is an individual staying out of fear and darkness. All we ever wanted was a clean, well-lighted place to go to…..
The Tell-Tale Heart describes on the rights to live a life between men and women which are influenced by many factors. Our believes are interrelated with ideas which being influenced by outside source. The man was not control of his actions. He gave us clues that over-shadow our daily activities with much fear in the man. The man was unconscious of their actions became nervous and anxiety. The struggle in darkness made he low-esteem and does not know what he was doing or saying. The mystery of this somehow is unsolved…
Regards
Kalpana Subramaniam
GS26643