Greetings :)
I would like us to revisit the poem "My Papa's Waltz" by Theodore Roethke. When we were discussing this poem the other day, I heard two contrasting views on the nature of the child and his father's relationship. I want to hear that contrasting views again. It would be helpful if you could also include in your discussion the words, phrases and lines that provide guidance towards your understanding of this poem.
Cheers.
When we first discussed this poem in class, seeing the title, I thought to myself, ‘Oh, this is a good memory between father and son’. I keep on that thought until line 3 and 4 of stanza 1 came saying ‘But I hung on like death: such waltzing is not easy’. Then it was clear to me that there was something more to this poem, this is not simple waltz the poet is describing, as we go along the lines, we could see there are more hints though subtle, of possible act of violence or tension between the father and son’s relationship.
ReplyDeleteStanza 3, line 3 and 4: ‘At every step you missed my right ear scraped a buckle.’ also gave me the impression that maybe the father did hit his son using a belt. From the lines, it could be understood that the word buckle refers to a belt buckle, and this item has a violent connotation where fathers used to hit their child with belt. Each stanza gave us hints on the relationship between the pair with the words “death, romped, scraped, beat” but the last two lines where the father waltzed his son to bed with him still clinging to the father’s shirt confused me a bit. It could be that maybe after the drunk father beat his son, he comes to his sense and then puts him to bed, but after being beaten, why would the son clings to him? Assuming that maybe a small child like the son, despite being beaten still loves his father and therefore did that make sense to me.
But since the last line confuses me a bit, if I look at it from a different angle, this whole poem could also just describe the father and son having their own good time playing and dancing roughly around the house. It was rough and more chaotic because they are both men, so that’s understandable. Since they have such a good time, at the end, the son doesn’t want to go to bed and therefore clings to him like a child would.
However, my conscience would not allow me to go with this view because there are too much hints on said violence and tension. Maybe the poet purposely starts describing the father in a drunken state to show that he is not conscious when he acts violent towards his son because in reality, the father actually cared for his son. It’s just the way he is built, hard to show affection, and when he tries doing it in drunken manner, he fails to see the other party getting hurt in the process. In short, I believe that there is a possibility of abuse between the two even without the poem explicitly said so and the fact remains that the son loves and admire his father so much, he is willing to go through the waltz.
Hi Nora,
DeleteHave you thought about other ideas associated with the phrase "going to bed"?
Hello madam,
DeleteYes I did when you asked me that question, hehe. It could indicate eternal bed as in grave. I didn't think of it before, but now that you asked me about it, another possibility in this poem would be, the son was laid to rest forever by his father. That's shocking! Then the lines still clinging to your shirt would make sense with the 1st stanza where the son hung on like death. Oh, this is an eye opener for me.
Thank you for this new perspective of the poem madam.
After reading the first stanza several times, I felt that the relationship between the son and his father is not really good and smooth. The first two lines of stanza 1 - “The whiskey on your breath” and “Could make a small boy dizzy” indicate that the father might be an alcoholic who always consumes alcohol which puts his son in a painful situation where he feels dizzy due to the smell of alcohol. Furthermore, it also gives an impression that the father could literally hurt his son after being drunk. However, I am slightly confused with the nature of the child and his father’s relationship whether they share a good or bad relationship as I read the second stanza. According to my interpretations, the line ‘We romped until the pans slid from the kitchen shelf'' gives me an idea that the child and his father were playing in a rough and excited manner to the extent where the pans fell from the shelf. It also can be interpreted differently, for instance, the father might beat his son consciously or unconsciously (in a drunken state) which causes him to run away from his father’s beatings and eventually hit the things around. So, the chasing and running between the son and father might be the reason for the pans to slide from the shelf.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, stanza 3 and 4 again made me think that the child and his father do not share a good and smooth relationship. It involves some abuses and violence acts. The last two lines of stanza 3 - “At every step you missed” and “My right ear scraped a buckle” show that the child was beaten by his father with a belt as “buckle” is a pin or clip that joins the strap of a belt. Moreover, the first line of stanza 4 - “You beat time on my head” also indicates the violence act of the child’s father as he hits his child on the head. Apart from that, the last line of stanza 4 - “Still clinging to your shirt” explains the love of the son towards his father. Although his father hurts him but still he loves him and wants to be with him. The last stanza melts my heart as the child is still clinging to his father’s shirt even though his father beats him which shows his unconditional love towards his father. Overall, I would say that the child and his father’s relationship is quite complicated. This is because it shows the father’s two faces where he was abusive or violent towards his son and at the same time he also seems to be an affectionate father.
ChenLiping GS60609
ReplyDeleteThis is my poetry appreciating assignment. When I first came into contact with this poem, when I read the title, I thought the author recorded the moment when his father danced. Whether it is a perfect dance or a worse dance, we need to read the poetry to understand. Later, I After consulting a lot of information, most Chinese scholars believe that this is a warm scene praising the father and the son dancing, especially in the last section, the son is unwilling to let his father go. We can see that the son is reluctant to give up to his father.
However, when I was present it in my class, some of my classmates had a completely different theme from mine. They thought that this poem was describing the process of father’s alcoholism and domestic violence. After listening to the professor’s analysis and explanation, I fell into contemplation again. Does the poem really describe a warm scene? I need to thought over and over again of my view. My father was drunk and his hands were not gentle. Our dance in the kitchen created a mess, my mother frowned but did not speak, my father's finger was bruised, and my father used my head to beat... the author used irony. The technique is to describe the father's domestic violence. Looking back, I asked myself, for a father who loves children, would he really not pay attention to his own behavior? The son is dizzy; sees his wife unhappy; hurts his son but is indifferent. As a father or a husband, this is obviously incompetent. Looking at it this way, the previous warm dancing scenes no longer exist.
The first time I read this poem was when my classmate shared it to us in class. I followed her thinking, so I thought it was a poem describing the happy memories of the son dancing and frolicking with his drunken father. But after listening to madam's thinking, I read the poem again, and found that the words in each stanza are not used to describe beauty. For example, in the first stanza, "dizzy" is especially used for little boys, "death" may not be used to describe a beautiful scene, "not easy" is also used. In the second stanza, the expression "unfrown" of the onlooker's mother can also indicate some unpleasant feelings. In the third stanza, "battered, scratched" is not suitable for describing the interaction between family members. In the fourth stanza, "beat time on my hand with a palm caked hard by dirt" is usually used as a means of punishment, not to mention "palm caked hard by dirt". We can imagine that the power is very heavy, so now I think this poem is a metaphor for drunken father's domestic violence against his children, But the last sentence of "still clinging to your shirt" puzzled me. Maybe it's the child's nature. He is too young to distinguish right from wrong. Even if his father is violent to him, he still loves his father. Or this is the first time his father is violent to him, or only when his father is drunk, These are not known.
ReplyDeleteYang Han,
DeleteA child is innocent. He does not know any better. He is helpless and it is the responsibility of parents and adults to ensure no harm could come to a child. Based on these insights, do you think a child knows any other way to react to his father's treatment?
My first impression on the title of this poem is about the memories of the child with his father waltzing and embracing their best moment together. When I go through the poem deeper from the first stanza, there are some clues which confused me if the father and son enjoyed their moment, or they are having issues. The words that disturbed me are “death”, “romped”, and “whiskey”. This poem describes both love and edginess between the father and son. When I read this poem, I could feel the closeness between the son and his father when they danced together, and the father waltzed the son to the bed. The closeness between the father and son can be seen when the son still clinging to his fathers’ shirt and hung on to the father when they waltzed. In contrast, the edginess between the father and son showed up in stanza 3 when there are physical movements that involves “the hand that held my wrist was battered on one knuckle” and the elements of “buckle” shows that the father hits the son. In the beginning of the poem, it shows that the father is an alcoholic and he is not in a good state of mind when he can waltz with his son when he was drunk. He hits the son without realizing it because he is drunk. In the last stanza, the father may feel guilty to his son and waltzed him to the bed. In my opinion, I think the father loves his family, but he has a bad habit of being an alcoholic. When he is drunk, he just can’t control his feelings and behaviour even with his son. Even the wife just could not unfrown herself when looking at the chaos happened in the kitchen. It could be that the father has issues and problems that lead him to his bad habit. I could see that the son loves his father so much even the father was drunk and hits him when he still clings to his fathers’ shirt.
ReplyDeleteThis poem expresses the author's two feelings : love and fear. The author is not only full of fear for his father's beating and scolding, but also loves his father's small actions. People with different experiences will have different interpretations of this poem. As far as I am concerned, the author deepens his hatred of his father because he has love for him.
ReplyDeleteYAN XIN （GS60492）
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this poem，from line5-6， I think this is not a quiet，stately waltz，but a violent romp. This dangerous interaction is making so much commotion that the pans are falling off the shelf. As well as， the line7-8， the mother is witnessing the violent interaction between the father and son and is upset. Countenance means face，or expression. Sayinf that her face couldn't unfrown itself means that she can't stop frowning. I noticed how the mother does not speak up to stop her
abusive husband. She might not speak up because she's too scared of her drunken husband. Saying something might make matters worse. The line13-14 shows the father‘s roughness and abusiveness. From the last two lines， the “waltz” or violent interaction is winding down. The line might be misinterpreted as sweet ，but think back to earlier where the speaker said he hung on like death. This “dance” was violent and the boy was beaten and scraped，yet he still clings on to his father. This shows that the boy must really love his father to want to keep clinging to him.
I think love isn't black and white， we often hold onto to relationships that are hurtful or abusive.